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270374 | dks <dks@t...> | 2020‑04‑04 | boxing of planes |
Looking through my woodies, I came across a nice pair of snipe bills stamped J. Miller 58 Grainger St. I was surprised to see the boxing is at right angles to the length of the plane. As might be expected, the boxing has shrunk a little, but there is otherwise no damage. I am wondering how unusual this is, as I don't recall seeing planes with cross-grain orientation of the boxing. Don, in preventive self-separation |
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270375 | Bill Ghio | 2020‑04‑04 | Re: boxing of planes |
> On Apr 4, 2020, at 12:39 PM, dks |
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270376 | "dks@t..." <dks@t...> | 2020‑04‑04 | Re: boxing of planes |
Standard but not universal. I had a quick look at 18 boxed planes. Twelve are clearly as you describe, set diagonally to the sole.. Two more may be, but are too grundgy and small for me to say with confidence. One has grain that runs parallel to the body. But the two snipe bills? Their boxing is definitely square to the sole of the plane. So how unusual is that? 2 of 18 in this little sample hoard, a pair by one maker. FWIW Don, still wondering how unusual it is Stay home and save lives! ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bill Ghio" |
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270377 | gary may | 2020‑04‑04 | Re: boxing of planes |
Don--- When you say 'square' to the sole of the plane, do you mean 'perpendicular' or 'parallel'? Makes a huge difference, I believe. Boxwood's very stable, but still shrinks a bit across the grain, and not at all---AFIK--- 'along' the grain lengthwise. So, if the boxing's grain is parallel to its housing, there's a less of a differential, I surmise. At hand here are two snipe bills and a couple of fillisters, all laid in as Bill describes. A 'stick and rabbet' I've managed to tame is boxed with all piece's grains running parallel to each other. There are more I could look at, but they're quite out of reach... Seems like it might be the case that *any* boxing is better than no boxing. Best to all galoots, everywhere, gam in OlyWA/USA How horrible it is to have so many people killed!---And what a blessing one cares for none of them! Jane Austen On Saturday, April 4, 2020, 12:58:24 PM PDT, dks@t... |
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270378 | Claudio DeLorenzi <claudio@d...> | 2020‑04‑04 | Re: boxing of planes |
Re boxing Just checked a couple boxes of woodies (30 units). Most of the better (yer name brand planes) ones have the grain either perpendicular or at a angle up to 45 degrees (more or less rubbing on end grain). Some I can't tell because of grunge or patina or whatever we're calling it today. Bottom line: in agreement with the other posts) Cheers from now sunny and warm Waterloo -- Claudio (tired from washing an entire winter's worth of sand grunge and salt from our vehicles, now ready for a cool beverage on -gasp- the patio, sans snow!) |
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270379 | "dks@t..." <dks@t...> | 2020‑04‑04 | Re: boxing of planes |
Do you mean 'perpendicular to the sole'? Don From: "Claudio DeLorenzi" |
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270380 | Spike Cornelius <spikethebike@c...> | 2020‑04‑04 | Re: boxing of planes |
I just checked my woodies and I can’t tell which direction the grain of the boxing goes! Best, Spike Sent from my refuge |
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270381 | Bill Ghio | 2020‑04‑04 | Re: boxing of planes |
If the boxing has shrunk in relation to the length of the plane it is inserted vertically. Sent from my iPad |
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270389 | Ed Minch <ruby1638@a...> | 2020‑04‑05 | Re: Boxwood and Box Trees ( Was: boxing of planes) |
Twice I have had the good fortune to run across boxwwod First was during a visit to Annapolis MD, home to a whole bunch of 18th houses. A famous one is the Hammond Harwood house, a beutifully symetrical Georgeian showpiece. We vbisitd about 10 years ago qnd as we approached I saw that a crew was busy cutting down some boxwood at the front door. I asked what wa sup and they said that these were planted in the 30’s, but current documentation shows that there were no foundtion plantings. I asked if they would save me some - I pointed to what I wanted - and while we visited the interior they stacked my up a large armload. I still have 1/2 of it left. The biggest piece was perhaps 3-1/2” and because it is not very sgraight, it is hard to get anything out of. Here are photos of the house with and without my boxwood - click right and left https://www.flickr.com/photos/ruby1638/49737809131/in/dateposted-public/ The second place was my next door neighbor's. Their house was built as early as 1795 (at least a part of it). They took a couple of boxwoods down perhaps 4 years ago and I got more - though not very big. It has mostly turned into tool handles, toys and some guitar inlays - it stays pale - but it is very dreamy and creamy to work with. Some shows no visible grain. What did the boxwood trees look like that allowed for those rules made 150 years ago that were a foot long and have stayed straight? Ed Minch |
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270390 | Bill Ghio | 2020‑04‑05 | Re: Boxwood and Box Trees ( Was: boxing of planes) |
> On Apr 5, 2020, at 6:00 AM, Ed Minch |
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270393 | Ed Minch <ruby1638@a...> | 2020‑04‑05 | Re: Boxwood and Box Trees ( Was: boxing of planes) |
A regular old tree looking object Ed Minch |
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270406 | Chuck Taylor | 2020‑04‑06 | Re: Boxwood and Box Trees ( Was: boxing of planes) |
Gentle Galoots, Did someone say "boxwood"? Here is a picture of a plane I made from boxwood during a 1-week plane-making class at http://www.insidepassage.ca">http://www.insidepassage.ca back in 2008. It is a Krenov-style plane, the 2nd one I made that week. The first was a smoother made from Jatoba. I posted pictures of that one at the time. The school had a bunch of different kinds of wood available for making additional planes, including a hunk of boxwood that looked good to me. https://www.dropbox.com/s/38wa2ctdbmkpd8a/BoxwoodPlane.jpg?dl=0 You shouldn't have to sign in to see that photo. Dimensions are 17" long, 2" wide, and 1-7/8" tall. The Hock iron is 1-1/4" wide. The Krenov-trained instructor called it a jointer. It is smaller than a traditional jointer, but works well for edge-joining components of small- to medium-sized boxes and cabinets. It is probably Turkish boxwood. The wood was a pleasure to work and planed like a dream. A little pricey though. Cheers, Chuck Taylor hunkered down north of Seattle USA |
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270407 | Ed Minch <ruby1638@a...> | 2020‑04‑06 | Re: Boxwood and Box Trees ( Was: boxing of planes) |
> > The school had a bunch of different kinds of wood available for making additional planes, including a hunk of boxwood that looked good to me. > > http s://www.dropbox.com/s/38wa2ctdbmkpd8a/BoxwoodPlane.jpg?dl=0 <www.dropbox.com/s/38wa2ctdbmkpd8a/BoxwoodPlane.jpg?dl=0">https://www.dropbox.c om/s/38wa2ctdbmkpd8a/BoxwoodPlane.jpg?dl=0> Chuck A thing of beauty. Your joints are invisible. Is it as stable as one imagines? Ed Minch |
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270409 | gary may | 2020‑04‑06 | Re: Boxwood and Box Trees ( Was: boxing of planes) |
Jeez Chuck, that's beautiful. Say, I was just using my tiny slick with its gorgeous apple handle made years ago by you. Best money I never spent! keep the faith, old friend..yr pl gam in OlyWA How horrible it is to have so many people killed!---And what a blessing one cares for none of them! Jane Austen On Sunday, April 5, 2020, 08:44:21 PM PDT, Chuck Taylor via OldTools |
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270429 | Chuck Taylor | 2020‑04‑07 | Re: Boxwood and Box Trees ( Was: boxing of planes) |
Ed Minch wrote: > > > > The school had a bunch of different kinds of wood available for making additional planes, > > including a hunk of boxwood that looked good to me. > > > https://www.dropbox.com/s/38wa2ctdbmkpd8a/BoxwoodPlane.jpg?dl=0 > A thing of beauty. Your joints are invisible. Is it as stable as one imagines? Stable indeed. Still flat after a dozen years. It's a really fine-grained wood, slick and smooth. I ran the boxwood over a tailed jointer to begin with, but that left a rippled surface. I think the jointer blades kinda bounced off. Then I took one pass with my Jatoba Krenov smoother with a Hock iron and all the ripples were gone. Funny- looking shaving: rippled on the top, smooth on the bottom. Thanks for the kind words. Chuck |
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270431 | Ed Minch <ruby1638@a...> | 2020‑04‑07 | Re: Boxwood and Box Trees ( Was: boxing of planes) |
Did you use the blunt chisel technique on the wedge? Ed MInch |
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270434 | Claudio DeLorenzi <claudio@d...> | 2020‑04‑07 | Re: Boxwood and Box Trees ( Was: boxing of planes) |
Bill Carter's techniques? His videos are worth watching. -- Claudio |
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270435 | Chuck Taylor | 2020‑04‑07 | Re: Boxwood and Box Trees ( Was: boxing of planes) |
Ed, Claudio, and other GGs, Ed asked: > Did you use the blunt chisel technique on the wedge? Claudio asked: > Bill Carter's techniques? His videos are worth watching. Both were referring to the build of the boxwood jointer plane I showed in an earlier posting. The answer to both questions is "No." I was taught by Robert Van Norman, who in turn was taught directly by James Krenov at the College of the Redwoods. We flattened the bed itself using a Stanley #80 scraper plane before the plane was glued up. Robert wouldn't let us go on to the next step until the bed passed his inspection. The wedge was cut to a 1:10 slope. The bottom of the wedge was IIRC flattened by running it over a smoothing plane held upside down in a vice. The pivoting pin with a "D" shaped profile was carefully installed and tuned to be exactly parallel to the bed. Final fitting was between the top of the wedge and the underside of the pin. I don't remember exactly how we did it (it has been 12 years now), but it did involve the usual checking for high spots and taking them down. We probably used card scrapers, but Carter's blunt chisel technique would have been a natural for that job. Robert said that "Jim", as he called his mentor, insisted that, after fitting and before gluing up joints, the wood must be wiped clean with acetone. Especially tropical hardwoods. After that we used ordinary white glue and plenty of clamps. The round pivots of the pivoting pin were cut by saw, chisel, and eye. We used a horizontal boring machine for placing the holes for the pin in precisely the right position. The various pieces of the body were aligned using dowels and a horizontal boring machine. Krenov describes this technique in "The Art of Cabinetmaking." Everyone else in the class used a tailed router to excavate the recess in the bed for the cap iron screw, but I insisted on doing it using hand tools. :-) It was a 1-week class, and on Thursday afternoon we had a live conference call with Krenov. (No videoconferencing back then.) He expounded on some technique and then we got to ask him questions. It was a fun week. Cheers, Chuck Taylor north of Seattle USA |
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270436 | Claudio DeLorenzi <claudio@d...> | 2020‑04‑07 | Re: Boxwood and Box Trees ( Was: boxing of planes) |
Re boxwood plane That's great, sounds like an enjoyable course! I have 3 of Krenov's books plus a few other plane making texts (Finck, Dunbar, Weygers, Kingshott, etc ) So you didn't use a laminated build, you cut it out of the solid? I love the look of traditional (not laminated) planes. I'm interested in the small mitre planes that Bill Carter makes from the brass backs of old Sheffield backsaws. Quite lovely. Claudio |
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270441 | Chuck Taylor | 2020‑04‑07 | Re: Boxwood and Box Trees ( Was: boxing of planes) |
Claudio, you wrote: > Re boxwood plane > > ... I have 3 of Krenov's books plus a few other plane making texts (Finck, Dunbar, > Weygers, Kingshott, etc ) > So you didn't use a laminated build, you cut it out of the solid? No, I did use a laminated build, as shown in David Finck's book. That's how I was able to use a Stanley #80 cabinet scraper to flatten the bed. David Finck was another of James Krenov's students at College of the Redwoods. > I love the look of traditional (not laminated) planes. I like them both. A laminated plane can be quite solid and a well-made one can perform quite well. As Ed pointed out, it's quite hard to see the seams, even in person. Cheers, Chuck |
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270442 | Ed Minch <ruby1638@a...> | 2020‑04‑07 | Re: Boxwood and Box Trees ( Was: boxing of planes) |
Yes - I have used it a couple of timw on guitars - just thas afternnon as a matter of fact. Cross grain on mahogany to fit a neck tenon Ed Minch |
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270443 | Ed Minch <ruby1638@a...> | 2020‑04‑07 | Re: Boxwood and Box Trees ( Was: boxing of planes) |
Thanks Chuck - sounds like fun When gluing together tha top and back of a guitar, the wood is less than 1/8” thick, so very important to get a good joint. It is the practice of most to wipe the edge of heavy exotic woods with acetone before gluing. Ed Minch |
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