My name Roger and I have a problem...:)

I was on this list a few years ago, a few being 15 or so IIRC.  Being
no longer single the need for alone time and making things has
resurfaced, things other than software anyway.   I want to break out
my meager collection of tools vintage #5, #7, #4 with a crack in it's
sole and start making furniture again.  Oh, and coming up with a
justification to go way beyond my means and buy a  Holtey A6, gotta
have an infill.   Dreaming is good.

My problem is I don't have a shop.  It looks like a multipurpose shop
in the backyard,  a shed, will be it.  It will need a workbench, a
lathe, a drlll press (for metal only) and a desk.  Does this sound
like too much to  put in a 10x14 shed?  Any advice on small work area
is appreciated.

I'm in Tallahassee Florida.  I'm considering AC for my shop but I'm
concerned the swings in humidity will make life difficult.

Thanks all

Roger
------------------------------------------------------------------------

Hi Roger, 

I don't have much experience yet but I live in a small 1 
bedroom apartment, store my portable 39" x 20" bench: 

http://tinyurl.com/3ch762 

in the walk-in closet, and do my woodworking in the kitchen. 
So I'm not sure what I'd do with so much space as a 10x14 
workshop! However, I might do something like this to start: 

http://tinyurl.com/3asgpt 

With a decent sized bench it would seem that there 
would be adequate space to work. 

Chris

----- Original Message ---- 
From: Roger Books  
To: oldtools@r... 
Sent: Monday, March 24, 2008 8:18:26 AM 
Subject: [OldTools] intro & shop question 

My name Roger and I have a problem...:) 

I was on this list a few years ago, a few being 15 or so IIRC. Being 
no longer single the need for alone time and making things has 
resurfaced, things other than software anyway. I want to break out 
my meager collection of tools vintage #5, #7, #4 with a crack in it's 
sole and start making furniture again. Oh, and coming up with a 
justification to go way beyond my means and buy a Holtey A6, gotta 
have an infill. Dreaming is good. 

My problem is I don't have a shop. It looks like a multipurpose shop 
in the backyard, a shed, will be it. It will need a workbench, a 
lathe, a drlll press (for metal only) and a desk. Does this sound 
like too much to put in a 10x14 shed? Any advice on small work area 
is appreciated. 

I'm in Tallahassee Florida. I'm considering AC for my shop but I'm 
concerned the swings in humidity will make life difficult. 

Thanks all 

Roger 
------------------------------------------------------------------------ 

On Mar 24, 2008, at 5:18, Roger Books wrote:
> My problem is I don't have a shop.  It looks like a multipurpose shop
> in the backyard,  a shed, will be it.  It will need a workbench, a
> lathe, a drlll press (for metal only) and a desk.  Does this sound
> like too much to  put in a 10x14 shed?  Any advice on small work area
> is appreciated.

I've worked in smaller areas than a 10'x14' shed; in fact I think my  
useful working area is more like 6'x10' right now, much of which is  
taken up by the working on my new bench.  Depending on how the shed is  
made and how tall it is you might be able to get storage space by wall  
mounting lumber racks and the like.  Working on long boards will  
probably be obnoxious, but you can get those crosscut before use (I  
have to, as otherwise they're usually several feet longer than the  
car).  So I think it can certainly be done.  I don't know how big a  
lathe you want, but I imagine a reasonable size won't be that  
difficult to fit.  One of the advantages of doing primarily handwork  
is that it requires less space.  And you can always move outside in  
case you feel the need to cut something enormous like plywood sheets  
(not recommended with hand tools; the glue in most plywood is hard to  
cut through).

> I'm in Tallahassee Florida.  I'm considering AC for my shop but I'm
> concerned the swings in humidity will make life difficult.

I say do what you need to do to make it comfortable for you; passing  
out from heat exhaustion doesn't help the work any.  I know yo-yoing  
humidity can have odd effects on wood, but if you only turn the AC on  
when you're working and leave it off the rest of the time I doubt the  
brief change will have enough time to cause the wood to get all weird.

Graham
------------------------------------------------------------------------

For awhile I had my little shop in my 10x12 shed out back. A couple of
shelves for storage, and I was good to go. My bench is 72x24 inches and
didn't take up nearly as much space as I thought it would. If I hadn't
moved everything to the basement, I would've installed a window in the
side and positioned the bench right under it.=0D
=0D
Trouble was, the Ohio winters were too bitter to work in an uninsulated
shed, even with some helper heaters. In my case 'lectric was a problem
too. My extention cord froze so solid I could barely keep it from
getting underfoot all the time.=0D
=0D
I had roughly the same space I could use in the basement as well, and I
couldn't see spending extra money on heating and cooling that shed, when
I already heated and cooled the house anyway.=0D
=0D
I guess the only thing I'm not sure of in your case Roger, is the
humidity. I sweated buckets the last time I was in Fla.=0D
=0D
-------- Original Message --------=0D
> From: "Roger Books" =0D Sent: Monday, March 24, 2008
> 10:54 AM=0D To: oldtools@r...=0D Subject: [OldTools] intro & shop
> question=0D
> =0D
> My name Roger and I have a problem...:)=0D
> =0D
[snipped]=0D
> =0D
> My problem is I don't have a shop. It looks like a multipurpose
> shop=0D in the backyard, a shed, will be it. It will need a workbench,
> a=0D lathe, a drlll press (for metal only) and a desk. Does this
> sound=0D like too much to put in a 10x14 shed? Any advice on small
> work area=0D is appreciated.=0D
> =0D
> I'm in Tallahassee Florida. I'm considering AC for my shop but I'm=0D
> concerned the swings in humidity will make life difficult.=0D
> =0D
> Thanks all=0D
> =0D
> Roger=0D


------------------------------------------------------------------------

(duh, without the extra attachments...)

On Mar 24, 2008, at 13:16, Roger Books wrote:
> I'm going to have to insulate it.  I'm already thinking I'll have to
> wire it (may hire an electrician),  put plywood over the insulation,
> and put pegboard over that.  I'm debating the lathe.  I really like
> treadle lathes but have a disorder which makes coordination with my
> right leg difficult.  Maybe I can harness the dog.
>
> It sounds like 10x14 is a reasonable size if I do lumber storage
> intelligently.  Maybe an external, closable cabinet/bench so I can
> sharpen outside.  Is SS still the method of choice or has something
> better shown up?

As far as I have been able to determine, assuming you're finishing  
with the same grit stuff (which with oilstones usually requires  
stopping) oilstones, waterstones and SS all give the same edge  
quality.  I like SS because it's more compact and requires less  
fiddling, and it's very easy these days to get a very, very sharp  
edge; you can buy 0.5 micron sandpaper from Lee Valley, and Tools for  
Working Wood sells 0.3 PSA stuff.  It is possible but difficult to  
find a waterstone with similar natural grit size, and basically  
impossible to find an equivalent oilstone; however you can strop using  
some sort of 0.5 micron abrasive compound for essentially the same  
result.  Whatever works for you, it's all basically the same idea.

As to the lathe, I have no idea.  I want to make one, and soon, but I  
need to finish the bench and some other projects first.  If you're  
wiring the place for electricity, you could try to find a "normal"  
lathe; I gather they're about as compact, possibly smaller.  But that  
discussion goes off old-tools content, I suspect.

Graham
------------------------------------------------------------------------

I'm going to have to insulate it. I'm already thinking I'll have to wire
it (may hire an electrician), put plywood over the insulation, and put
pegboard over that. I'm debating the lathe. I really like treadle lathes
but have a disorder which makes coordination with my right leg
difficult. Maybe I can harness the dog.

It sounds like 10x14 is a reasonable size if I do lumber storage
intelligently. Maybe an external, closable cabinet/bench so I can
sharpen outside. Is SS still the method of choice or has something
better shown up?

Roger

On Mon, Mar 24, 2008 at 3:57 PM, Dave Pearce  wrote:
> For awhile I had my little shop in my 10x12 shed out back. A couple of
> shelves for storage, and I was good to go. My bench is 72x24 inches
> and didn't take up nearly as much space as I thought it would. If I
> hadn't moved everything to the basement, I would've installed a window
> in the side and positioned the bench right under it.
>
>  Trouble was, the Ohio winters were too bitter to work in an
>  uninsulated shed, even with some helper heaters. In my case 'lectric
>  was a problem too. My extention cord froze so solid I could barely
>  keep it from getting underfoot all the time.
>
>  I had roughly the same space I could use in the basement as well, and
>  I couldn't see spending extra money on heating and cooling that shed,
>  when I already heated and cooled the house anyway.
>
>  I guess the only thing I'm not sure of in your case Roger, is the
>  humidity. I sweated buckets the last time I was in Fla.
>
>
>  -------- Original Message --------
>  > From: "Roger Books"  Sent: Monday, March 24, 2008
>  > 10:54 AM To: oldtools@r... Subject: [OldTools] intro & shop
>  > question
>  >
>  > My name Roger and I have a problem...:)
>  >
>
> [snipped]
>  >
>  > My problem is I don't have a shop. It looks like a multipurpose
>  > shop in the backyard, a shed, will be it. It will need a workbench,
>  > a lathe, a drlll press (for metal only) and a desk. Does this sound
>  > like too much to put in a 10x14 shed? Any advice on small work area
>  > is appreciated.
>  >
>
> > I'm in Tallahassee Florida. I'm considering AC for my shop but I'm
>  > concerned the swings in humidity will make life difficult.
>  >
>  > Thanks all
>  >
>  > Roger
>
>
>
>
>
>  -----------------------------------------------------------------
>  -------
>  OldTools is a mailing list catering to the interests of hand tool
>  aficionados, both collectors and users, to discuss the history,
>  usage, value, location, availability, collectibility, and restoration
>  of traditional handtools, especially woodworking tools.
>
>  To change your subscription options:
>  http://ruckus.law.cornell.edu/mailman/listinfo/oldtools
>
>  To read the FAQ:
>  http://people.iarc.uaf.edu/~cswingle/archive/faq.html
>
>  OldTools archive: http://people.iarc.uaf.edu/~cswingle/archive/
>
>  OldTools@r... http://ruckus.law.cornell.edu/mailman/listinfo/oldtools
>
------------------------------------------------------------------------

For the shed I was in, I used one side exclusively for wood storage. I
had a storage cart I built that held all the offcut pieces with a
overhang on the back for larger sheet goods. On the studs behind it, I
hung large hooks all the way across in two rows and stacked up the long
boards there.=0D
=0D
The plans for the storage cart I built are here:=0D
=0D
http://www.woodmagazine.com/wood/story.jsp?storyid=/templatedata/wood/s-
tory/data/452.xml=0D
=0D
I put casters on mine, and extended a lip on the bottom of the base that
overhung the back by about 5 inches, then added a small vertical peices
to help hold the sheet goods.=0D
=0D
Good luck with your space!=0D
=0D
-------- Original Message --------=0D
> From: "travis anderson-bond" =0D Sent: Tuesday, March
> 25, 2008 2:37 AM=0D To: "Roger Books" =0D Subject:
> Re: [OldTools] intro & shop question=0D
> =0D
> >  It sounds like 10x14 is a reasonable size if I do lumber storage=0D
> >  intelligently.=0D
> =0D
> FWIW: My woodshop is still "on paper" at the moment, but my plan is=0D
> to have the bulk of the wood storage outside (under a modded
> carport),=0D and only bring it in on a "as needed" basis. Except for
> the funny=0D little scraps and offcuts -- but I figure a few milk
> crates or=0D somesuch would do the job.=0D
> =0D


------------------------------------------------------------------------

My scrap wood  "assortment" would fill about 6 to 10 of those.

I think I need to be more, uh, "selective" in choosing which offcuts and
scraps to keep...

- Bill T.
- Swimming in bits and pieces of this and that

-----Original Message-----
From: oldtools-bounces@r...
[mailto:oldtools-bounces@r...] On Behalf Of Dave Pearce
Sent: Tuesday, March 25, 2008 8:54 AM
To: oldtools@r...
Subject: Re: [OldTools] intro & shop question

For the shed I was in, I used one side exclusively for wood storage.  I had
a storage cart I built that held all the offcut pieces with a overhang on
the back for larger sheet goods.  On the studs behind it, I hung large hooks
all the way across in two rows and stacked up the long boards there.

The plans for the storage cart I built are here:

http://www.woodmagazine.com/wood/story.jsp?storyid=/templatedata/wood/story/
data/452.xml

I put casters on mine, and extended a lip on the bottom of the base that
overhung the back by about 5 inches, then added a small vertical peices to
help hold the sheet goods.

Good luck with your space!

-------- Original Message --------
> From: "travis anderson-bond" 
> Sent: Tuesday, March 25, 2008 2:37 AM
> To: "Roger Books" 
> Subject: Re: [OldTools] intro & shop question
>
> >  It sounds like 10x14 is a reasonable size if I do lumber storage
> >  intelligently.
>
> FWIW:  My woodshop is still "on paper" at the moment, but my plan is
> to have the bulk of the wood storage outside (under a modded carport),
> and only bring it in on a "as needed" basis.  Except for the funny
> little scraps and offcuts -- but I figure a few milk crates or
> somesuch would do the job.
>

------------------------------------------------------------------------

Bill said:
> My scrap wood  "assortment" would fill about 6 to 10 of those.

I thought the very same thing as soon as I saw the schematic, but
perhaps I'm just a packrat. Go figger. At a flea market the other week,
a seller was unloading boxes from an estate sale and discovered one full
of cutoffs from ... get this ... particle board. The biggest was maybe
6"x8". I mean, I'm *bad*, but that's just silly. Is this the difference
between "collecting" and "hoarding"?

Steve, in Howell NJ
------------------------------------------------------------------------

Yeh - could also be a case of being a cheap a** bastid.

I recently have gotten better at telling myself "just throw it away," even
though it irks me.  Just last weekend I took a truckload of stuff to the
landfill and tossed it.  At a certain point, I realized I have been lugging
this stuff around from house to house or just tripping over it in the
current shop or garage, periodically rearranging it to try to make more
space, etc.  I realize that it's stupid - I'm keeping all this crap I never
will have any use for and neither will anyone else.

I have this mental block for things that *might* be useful *someday* in
certain circumstances.  Can't bring myself to throw out a "perfectly good"
[insert identity of item here].  And that mentality has indeed come in handy
on occasion - I have sometimes happened to have just the right little bit of
this or that for a task at hand.  But for the most part, it's just *stuff*
consuming valuable space, time and energy.  I still have some more scraps I
probably should ditch.  There is a limit, even to my pack-rat-ness.

- Bill T.
- Hi, my name is Bill and I'm a pack rat.

-----Original Message-----
From: oldtools-bounces@r...
[mailto:oldtools-bounces@r...] On Behalf Of SHINE, STEPHEN
C (STEVE), ATTLABS
Sent: Tuesday, March 25, 2008 9:38 AM
To: oldtools@r...
Subject: RE: [OldTools] intro & shop question

Bill said:
> My scrap wood  "assortment" would fill about 6 to 10 of those.

I thought the very same thing as soon as I saw the schematic, but
perhaps I'm just a packrat.  Go figger.

At a flea market the other week, a seller was unloading boxes from an
estate sale and discovered one full of cutoffs from ... get this ...
particle board.  The biggest was maybe 6"x8".  I mean, I'm *bad*, but
that's just silly.  Is this the difference between "collecting" and
"hoarding"?

Steve, in Howell NJ
------------------------------------------------------------------------

As fall rolls around and its time to take in the hammock and clean off 
the BBQ tools, I start a "burn bag" or two, Just paper grocery bags 
that I start filling up with scraps that haven't proven as useful as I 
thought they would be.  When the family wants a fire in the fireplace 
during the (semi) cold months here in Northern Cal, we start with the 
nice split logs but then the burn bag comes up from the garage and lots 
of well dried and oddly shaped hardwood gets stoked in there as well.

then I'm left with mostly ply scraps and straight pieces longer than a 
foot.

MS

My scrap wood  "assortment" would fill about 6 to 10 of those.

I think I need to be more, uh, "selective" in choosing which offcuts and
scraps to keep...

- Bill T.
- Swimming in bits and pieces of this and that

>
> FWIW:  My woodshop is still "on paper" at the moment, but my plan is
> to have the bulk of the wood storage outside (under a modded carport),
> and only bring it in on a "as needed" basis.  Except for the funny
> little scraps and offcuts -- but I figure a few milk crates or
> somesuch would do the job.
------------------------------------------------------------------------

>  It sounds like 10x14 is a reasonable size if I do lumber storage
>  intelligently.

FWIW:  My woodshop is still "on paper" at the moment, but my plan is
to have the bulk of the wood storage outside (under a modded carport),
and only bring it in on a "as needed" basis.  Except for the funny
little scraps and offcuts -- but I figure a few milk crates or
somesuch would do the job.

> Maybe an external, closable cabinet/bench so I can
>  sharpen outside.

I'm planning on having the bench grinder outside, under a bit of an
overhang:  I don't want metal filings to end up amongst my wooden
offcuts and/or work surface.

Just keeping it kosher:  wooden shavings over here; metal filings over there...

--Travis
------------------------------------------------------------------------

Roger,

I am blessed by having a 12' x 24' shop.  But from my experience...

Have everything against the walls, and on casters.   That way what is used 
can be in the center of the space, and the rest of the stuff pushed out of 
the way.

Even my bench at 300+# is on 6 3" castors, and it takes more than planing a 
board to move it.  (Grab with both hands and swing the body).

You need a wall of storage shelves.  I found the space above 7' on the wall 
doesn't get much use, so I put shelves there too.  The biggest problem is 
where to put stuff.  (I also use the rafters of my steel shed)

You need some place dedicated to storing wood.  Big pieces and leftovers. 
The advantage of having a decicated space for small stuff, is that when it 
gets full, you have to make some decisions about pitch or not, instead of 
just letting it slosh around in the way.

And finally, you need some sort of extra flat space, a temporary table, 
plywood on sawhorses, etc, for putting stuff on "temprarily" that can be 
moved out of the way when you need space for something else.

>From what I've read on the Porch, very few of us would say our shop was big 
enough, and we didn't lust after a few dozen more square feet of space.

Walt C

Roger asked for advice ahd help....

My name Roger and I have a problem...:)



My problem is I don't have a shop. It looks like a multipurpose shop
in the backyard, a shed, will be it. It will need a workbench, a
lathe, a drlll press (for metal only) and a desk. Does this sound
like too much to put in a 10x14 shed? Any advice on small work area
is appreciated.

I'm in Tallahassee Florida. I'm considering AC for my shop but I'm
concerned the swings in humidity will make life difficult.

Thanks all

Roger 

------------------------------------------------------------------------

Maybe skylights would give you the light you want and save your wall space.

clint

-----Original Message-----
From: oldtools-bounces@r...
[mailto:oldtools-bounces@r...]On Behalf Of Roger Books
Sent: Tuesday, March 25, 2008 5:43 PM
To: walter cheever
Cc: old tools
Subject: [OldTools] Re: intro & shop question

Thanks all, great information.

I'm debating 10x16.  I'm trying to keep a reasonable amount of space
clear in the center of the room for finishing and wargaming.  The roll
around equipment will be perfect.  A scrap box is going into the
layout also.  The big debate is windows or wall space   I'm thinking a
nice tool chest the same height as the bench  and a few feet away
from it would work out nicely for rarely used tools and allow more
window space..  I have to save some space in the rafters for SWMBO's
holiday decorations.

This is  not going to be a metal shed.  I  am thinking concrete block
rests for you basic sled shed.  I'm also trying to figure out enough
windows while still having a climbing wall on the back side.  I can
see asymmetry is going to be needed while still making it look good.
SWMBO is impatient and just wants it done.  I want a work area I will
be happy with.  Bits like the climbing wall will work in my favor.  :)

I'll do pictures and post them.  First stop is a permit.

Roger
------------------------------------------------------------------------

There is nothing like a woodstove in a shop on a cold day to clean up 
the scrap pile.
If you build your shop floor a couple feet off the ground and can keep 
it dry underneath
you could have access doors on the outside and slide lumber into racks 
underneath the floor. A concrete apron outside can allow you to extend 
your shop on nice days.
Mike

nicknaylo@a... wrote:
> 
As fall 
> rolls around and its time to take in the hammock and clean off the BBQ 
> tools, I start a "burn bag" or two, Just paper grocery bags that I 
> start filling up with scraps that haven't proven as useful as I 
> thought they would be.  When the family wants a fire in the fireplace 
> during the (semi) cold months here in Northern Cal, we start with the 
> nice split logs but then the burn bag comes up from the garage and 
> lots of well dried and oddly shaped hardwood gets stoked in there as 
> well.
>
> then I'm left with mostly ply scraps and straight pieces longer than a 
> foot.
>
> MS
>
>
>
> My scrap wood  "assortment" would fill about 6 to 10 of those.
>
> I think I need to be more, uh, "selective" in choosing which offcuts and
> scraps to keep...
>
> - Bill T.
> - Swimming in bits and pieces of this and that
>
>>
>> FWIW:  My woodshop is still "on paper" at the moment, but my plan is
>> to have the bulk of the wood storage outside (under a modded carport),
>> and only bring it in on a "as needed" basis.  Except for the funny
>> little scraps and offcuts -- but I figure a few milk crates or
>> somesuch would do the job.
>
> 

-- 
Michael E. Siemsen
Green Lake Clock Co.
http://www.greenlakeclock.com/
651-257-9166

------------------------------------------------------------------------

Thanks all, great information.

I'm debating 10x16.  I'm trying to keep a reasonable amount of space
clear in the center of the room for finishing and wargaming.  The roll
around equipment will be perfect.  A scrap box is going into the
layout also.  The big debate is windows or wall space   I'm thinking a
nice tool chest the same height as the bench  and a few feet away
from it would work out nicely for rarely used tools and allow more
window space..  I have to save some space in the rafters for SWMBO's
holiday decorations.

This is  not going to be a metal shed.  I  am thinking concrete block
rests for you basic sled shed.  I'm also trying to figure out enough
windows while still having a climbing wall on the back side.  I can
see asymmetry is going to be needed while still making it look good.
SWMBO is impatient and just wants it done.  I want a work area I will
be happy with.  Bits like the climbing wall will work in my favor.  :)

I'll do pictures and post them.  First stop is a permit.

Roger
------------------------------------------------------------------------

Skylights are an excellent idea.  I have four in a 12x16 tack room in a barn
with no electricity.  Along with three windows, between can and can't they
provide more than enough light for almost anything.

J

Joseph Sullivan

-----Original Message-----
From: oldtools-bounces@r...
[mailto:oldtools-bounces@r...] On Behalf Of Clint & Tracy
Warren
Sent: Tuesday, March 25, 2008 7:16 PM
To: old tools
Subject: RE: [OldTools] Re: intro & shop question

Maybe skylights would give you the light you want and save your wall space.

clint

-----Original Message-----
From: oldtools-bounces@r...
[mailto:oldtools-bounces@r...]On Behalf Of Roger Books
Sent: Tuesday, March 25, 2008 5:43 PM
To: walter cheever
Cc: old tools
Subject: [OldTools] Re: intro & shop question

Thanks all, great information.

I'm debating 10x16.  I'm trying to keep a reasonable amount of space
clear in the center of the room for finishing and wargaming.  The roll
around equipment will be perfect.  A scrap box is going into the
layout also.  The big debate is windows or wall space   I'm thinking a
nice tool chest the same height as the bench  and a few feet away
from it would work out nicely for rarely used tools and allow more
window space..  I have to save some space in the rafters for SWMBO's
holiday decorations.

This is  not going to be a metal shed.  I  am thinking concrete block
rests for you basic sled shed.  I'm also trying to figure out enough
windows while still having a climbing wall on the back side.  I can
see asymmetry is going to be needed while still making it look good.
SWMBO is impatient and just wants it done.  I want a work area I will
be happy with.  Bits like the climbing wall will work in my favor.  :)

I'll do pictures and post them.  First stop is a permit.

Roger
------------------------------------------------------------------------

Skylights are great for light (I have four of them), but are not really
a replacement for windows. A good sized window gives you side light,
which is really helpful in woodworking, and a view that extends beyond 5
or 8 feet, which I think is even more important. Plus you get to see
what is going on outside, with the weather, the birds, the family, etc,
all things that contribute to your quality of life.

Eric

----- Original Message ---- From: Dana Farmer& Cindy Miller
 To: Roger Books ; walter
cheever 
 Cc: old tools  Sent: Tuesday, March 25, 2008 7:44:09 PM
     Subject: RE: [OldTools] Re: intro & shop question

 Lots of good advice so far, I especially like the sky light idea.

Maximize your wall and ceiling height.

I'd like to suggest putting double or triple window units so you can
look up from the bench and have a nice view. Having the natural light
will help make it that much more pleasant. I recently moved my bench
over to the window and really enjoy it.

I would strongly suggest some sort of alarm system, or at very least pre-
wire for one. Some alarm companies will come out and pre-wire for very
cheap or maybe free. Run enough power to handle any future tailed
devices. Some sort of wall mounted power fan for those time you wish to
suck those nasty fumes out. Don't forget heating and or cooling needs,

If you're anything like me, assume you will be tinkering with your shop
layout a fair amount. Be flexible in your initial set up.

Dana

-----Original Message----- From: oldtools-bounces@r... [mailto:oldtools-
bounces@r...] On Behalf Of Roger Books Sent: Tuesday, March 25, 2008
7:43 PM To: walter cheever
CCI:  old tools Subject: [OldTools] Re: intro & shop question

Thanks all, great information.

I'm debating 10x16. I'm trying to keep a reasonable amount of space
clear in the center of the room for finishing and wargaming. The roll
around equipment will be perfect. A scrap box is going into the layout
also. The big debate is windows or wall space I'm thinking a nice tool
chest the same height as the bench and a few feet away from it would
work out nicely for rarely used tools and allow more window space.. I
have to save some space in the rafters for SWMBO's holiday decorations.

This is not going to be a metal shed. I am thinking concrete block rests
for you basic sled shed. I'm also trying to figure out enough windows
while still having a climbing wall on the back side. I can see asymmetry
is going to be needed while still making it look good. SWMBO is
impatient and just wants it done. I want a work area I will be happy
with. Bits like the climbing wall will work in my favor. :)

I'll do pictures and post them. First stop is a permit.

Roger

------------------------------------------------------------------------

Amen Brother Walter.

Go vertical if at all possible.  Build the highest ceiling you can get away
with.  Shelves up high for wood storage and other stuff not used often.
Benches with lots of drawers underneath.  Everything on casters.  If you get
clever, you can "nest" machines (if you have some, which I know a lot of
Galoots do) by tucking a shorter one under the outfeed table or fence rails
of another, etc.

Workbench, lathe, drill press, desk - should pretty much fill up that shed.
As long as you can work with the doors open, you probably can make it work.
Put the bench on wheels, best if there is some way to retract them, and roll
it out of doors for use.

Just remember the mantra - when floor space is limited, go vertical.  Tall
sets of shelves, tall racks, etc.  Make maximum use of available wall space
and ceiling; store stuff under and inside benches.

Did I mention I'm a pack rat?

- Bill T.
- With a 16 x 24 shop that ain't enough square footage.

-----Original Message-----
From: oldtools-bounces@r...
[mailto:oldtools-bounces@r...] On Behalf Of walter cheever
Sent: Tuesday, March 25, 2008 7:00 PM
To: Roger Books
Cc: old tools
Subject: [OldTools] Re: intro & shop question

Roger,

I am blessed by having a 12' x 24' shop.  But from my experience...

Have everything against the walls, and on casters.   That way what is used
can be in the center of the space, and the rest of the stuff pushed out of
the way.

Even my bench at 300+# is on 6 3" castors, and it takes more than planing a
board to move it.  (Grab with both hands and swing the body).

You need a wall of storage shelves.  I found the space above 7' on the wall
doesn't get much use, so I put shelves there too.  The biggest problem is
where to put stuff.  (I also use the rafters of my steel shed)

You need some place dedicated to storing wood.  Big pieces and leftovers.
The advantage of having a decicated space for small stuff, is that when it
gets full, you have to make some decisions about pitch or not, instead of
just letting it slosh around in the way.

And finally, you need some sort of extra flat space, a temporary table,
plywood on sawhorses, etc, for putting stuff on "temprarily" that can be
moved out of the way when you need space for something else.

>From what I've read on the Porch, very few of us would say our shop was big

enough, and we didn't lust after a few dozen more square feet of space.

Walt C

Roger asked for advice ahd help....

My name Roger and I have a problem...:)



My problem is I don't have a shop. It looks like a multipurpose shop
in the backyard, a shed, will be it. It will need a workbench, a
lathe, a drlll press (for metal only) and a desk. Does this sound
like too much to put in a 10x14 shed? Any advice on small work area
is appreciated.

I'm in Tallahassee Florida. I'm considering AC for my shop but I'm
concerned the swings in humidity will make life difficult.

Thanks all

Roger

------------------------------------------------------------------------

Don't sacrifice a window for wall space.  I built only one window in my
shop, thinking that I would maximize wall space, and I now wish I had at
least one more.  In fact, I might still retro one in there.  But probably
not.  I'd put at least one window in there - partly for aesthetics - it
makes the building look nicer than four blank walls with a door - and partly
for natural lighting and helping the place not feel like a 10x16 shed
crammed full of stuff.

- Bill T.

-----Original Message-----
From: oldtools-bounces@r...
[mailto:oldtools-bounces@r...] On Behalf Of Roger Books
Sent: Tuesday, March 25, 2008 7:43 PM
To: walter cheever
Cc: old tools
Subject: [OldTools] Re: intro & shop question

Thanks all, great information.

I'm debating 10x16.  I'm trying to keep a reasonable amount of space
clear in the center of the room for finishing and wargaming.  The roll
around equipment will be perfect.  A scrap box is going into the
layout also.  The big debate is windows or wall space   I'm thinking a
nice tool chest the same height as the bench  and a few feet away
from it would work out nicely for rarely used tools and allow more
window space..  I have to save some space in the rafters for SWMBO's
holiday decorations.

This is  not going to be a metal shed.  I  am thinking concrete block
rests for you basic sled shed.  I'm also trying to figure out enough
windows while still having a climbing wall on the back side.  I can
see asymmetry is going to be needed while still making it look good.
SWMBO is impatient and just wants it done.  I want a work area I will
be happy with.  Bits like the climbing wall will work in my favor.  :)

I'll do pictures and post them.  First stop is a permit.

Roger
------------------------------------------------------------------------

Lots of good advice so far, I especially like the sky light idea.

Maximize your wall and ceiling height.

I'd like to suggest putting double or triple window units so you can look up
from the bench and have a nice view. Having the natural light will help make
it that much more pleasant. I recently moved my bench over to the window and
really enjoy it.

I would strongly suggest some sort of alarm system, or at very least
pre-wire for one. Some alarm companies will come out and pre-wire for very
cheap or maybe free. Run enough power to handle any future tailed devices.
Some sort of wall mounted power fan for those time you wish to suck those
nasty fumes out. Don't forget heating and or cooling needs,

If you're anything like me, assume you will be tinkering with your shop
layout a fair amount. Be flexible in your initial set up.

Dana

-----Original Message-----
From: oldtools-bounces@r...
[mailto:oldtools-bounces@r...] On Behalf Of Roger Books
Sent: Tuesday, March 25, 2008 7:43 PM
To: walter cheever
Cc: old tools
Subject: [OldTools] Re: intro & shop question

Thanks all, great information.

I'm debating 10x16.  I'm trying to keep a reasonable amount of space
clear in the center of the room for finishing and wargaming.  The roll
around equipment will be perfect.  A scrap box is going into the
layout also.  The big debate is windows or wall space   I'm thinking a
nice tool chest the same height as the bench  and a few feet away
from it would work out nicely for rarely used tools and allow more
window space..  I have to save some space in the rafters for SWMBO's
holiday decorations.

This is  not going to be a metal shed.  I  am thinking concrete block
rests for you basic sled shed.  I'm also trying to figure out enough
windows while still having a climbing wall on the back side.  I can
see asymmetry is going to be needed while still making it look good.
SWMBO is impatient and just wants it done.  I want a work area I will
be happy with.  Bits like the climbing wall will work in my favor.  :)

I'll do pictures and post them.  First stop is a permit.

Roger
------------------------------------------------------------------------

Porch Homeland Security detail reporting in;

Snipparoo "I would strongly suggest some sort of alarm system, or at very
least
pre-wire for one. Some alarm companies will come out and pre-wire for very
cheap or maybe free."

Technology Update: Most residential and light commercial systems are
wireless these days, plus a 10x16 shed will have the grand total of two
security devices. A motion detector and one or more door contact(s). Those
galoots in colder climes will have to forgo the motion detector and stick to
mechanical devices. About the only thing that gets prewired these days are
carriage trade homes, and that only because the $$$ flow freely for
features.

If any galoot wants to ask further, ping me off-line, rather than incur a
lightning bolt from Mt. Olympus.

Ed, where it's still -10C (GRRRR!!) Where's spring, already, even? (vague
and obtuse reference to a US feline cartoon character, Jeff)

------------------------------------------------------------------------

If you don't want or can't get an alarm system, or in addition to one, you
can drill the sides of your window frames and install  3/4 inch black pipe
as bars.  Horizontal ones don't have that "jail" look, and you can hang
stuff on them.  Just be sure and bore into the framing studs so you have
real strength.  If the windows are already in, you have to have a bigger
hole on one side so you can pivot the bars into place.  Just back fill with
epoxy and all will be well.

Joe

Joseph Sullivan

-----Original Message-----
From: oldtools-bounces@r...
[mailto:oldtools-bounces@r...] On Behalf Of Dana Farmer&
Cindy Miller
Sent: Tuesday, March 25, 2008 9:44 PM
To: 'Roger Books'; 'walter cheever'
Cc: 'old tools'
Subject: RE: [OldTools] Re: intro & shop question

Lots of good advice so far, I especially like the sky light idea.

Maximize your wall and ceiling height.

I'd like to suggest putting double or triple window units so you can look up
from the bench and have a nice view. Having the natural light will help make
it that much more pleasant. I recently moved my bench over to the window and
really enjoy it.

I would strongly suggest some sort of alarm system, or at very least
pre-wire for one. Some alarm companies will come out and pre-wire for very
cheap or maybe free. Run enough power to handle any future tailed devices.
Some sort of wall mounted power fan for those time you wish to suck those
nasty fumes out. Don't forget heating and or cooling needs,

If you're anything like me, assume you will be tinkering with your shop
layout a fair amount. Be flexible in your initial set up.

Dana

-----Original Message-----
From: oldtools-bounces@r...
[mailto:oldtools-bounces@r...] On Behalf Of Roger Books
Sent: Tuesday, March 25, 2008 7:43 PM
To: walter cheever
Cc: old tools
Subject: [OldTools] Re: intro & shop question

Thanks all, great information.

I'm debating 10x16.  I'm trying to keep a reasonable amount of space
clear in the center of the room for finishing and wargaming.  The roll
around equipment will be perfect.  A scrap box is going into the
layout also.  The big debate is windows or wall space   I'm thinking a
nice tool chest the same height as the bench  and a few feet away
from it would work out nicely for rarely used tools and allow more
window space..  I have to save some space in the rafters for SWMBO's
holiday decorations.

This is  not going to be a metal shed.  I  am thinking concrete block
rests for you basic sled shed.  I'm also trying to figure out enough
windows while still having a climbing wall on the back side.  I can
see asymmetry is going to be needed while still making it look good.
SWMBO is impatient and just wants it done.  I want a work area I will
be happy with.  Bits like the climbing wall will work in my favor.  :)

I'll do pictures and post them.  First stop is a permit.

Roger
------------------------------------------------------------------------

hi Roger, welcome. you have already had lots or great stuff so I'll just 
add a couple of things (assuming your Florida weather might be similar 
to our own down here). You might consider a dehumidifier and maybe add a 
porch so you can sit a while on a rocker on a nice sunny winter day.

regards, Peter

Roger Books wrote:
> My name Roger and I have a problem...:)
> My problem is I don't have a shop.  It looks like a multipurpose shop
> in the backyard,  a shed, will be it.  It will need a workbench, a
> lathe, a drlll press (for metal only) and a desk.  Does this sound
> like too much to  put in a 10x14 shed?  Any advice on small work area
> is appreciated.
> 
> I'm in Tallahassee Florida.  I'm considering AC for my shop but I'm
> concerned the swings in humidity will make life difficult.
> 
> Thanks all
> 
> Roger
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------

Peter Robinson
Brisbane, Australia

------------------------------------------------------------------------