GGs, I've found some tool inventories of the carpenter shop of Hudson's
Bay Company's Fort Vancouver, [
<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fort_Vancouver> for the historical
context, <http://www.nps.gov/fova/index.htm> for the modern National
Park Service reconstruction,] for 1845, that I hope someone can help
identify. Among the various types of planes that I CAN figure out (see
full inventory below). are listed "1 case plane" and 1 rubber plane."
I've tried searching both via Google and in the OT message archive, but
the various uses and alternative meanings of the two separate words in
each case yields only frustration. Can anyone here describe for me,
and/or point me to web resources on, mid-19th century woodworking tools
known as "case plane" and "rubber plane"? TIA, Tom Holloway
<http://furfortfunfacts.blogspot.com/>

Here is the complete inventory for 1845 [with a few notes by me in
square brackets], which might help in figuring out what case planes and
rubber planes are NOT:6 adzes 4 large square head axes 12 grooving axes
8 screw augers [probably large =93T=94 augers, for boring holes in
beams] 6 shell augers 1 brace [and] 36 bits1 hand saw file 1 pair
compasses 1 screw driver 4 gouges 1 small square, 6 inch 3 assorted
gimlets 4 spike gimlets 1 jointer plane 3 trying planes 4 jack planes 1
hand plane [probably a small smoothing plane] 2 pair grooving planes 11-
1/8 [number meaning unclear] 3 bead planes 2 molding planes 1 hand saw 3
tenon saws 2 window planes 1 case plane =09 1 rubber plane 1 half round
file 12 inches 3 bastard files 1 pit saw file 1 cross cut saw file 2 rat
tail files 3 flat bastard files 3 plough keys 1 oil stone 6 shingling
axes 2 key hole saws 1 pair pincers 10 assorted chisels 9 socket chisels
3 kent hammers 3 foot rules

------------------------------------------------------------------------

Tom-

I looked in Whelan. He listed neither directly. He has a section on
casemakers and the specialized planes they used to create "air-tight
cases". Generally the planes would create a shallow radiused groove or
grooves that would mate with a raised bead creating a tighter joint than
a simple butt join. They were used particularly on the edges of doors.
Maybe they'd be used at remote posts to create a more element proof case
than rougher cases, but I'm skeptical. It looks like some of them at
least were used in pairs like match planes, but yielding a shallow joint
that could be opened again.

No mention at all of rubber planes, but what do you expect in a book
about wooden planes.

Phil

On Thu, Aug 9, 2012 at 10:43 AM, Tom Holloway wrote:

> GGs, I've found some tool inventories of the carpenter shop of
> Hudson's Bay Company's Fort Vancouver, [
> <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fort_Vancouver> for the historical
> context, <http://www.nps.gov/fova/index.htm> for the modern National
> Park Service reconstruction,] for 1845, that I hope someone can help
> identify. Among the various types of planes that I CAN figure out (see
> full inventory below). are listed "1 case plane" and 1 rubber plane."
> I've tried searching both via Google and in the OT message archive,
> but the various uses and alternative meanings of the two separate
> words in each case yields only frustration. Can anyone here describe
> for me, and/or point me to web resources on, mid-19th century
> woodworking tools known as "case plane" and "rubber plane"? TIA, Tom
> Holloway <http://furfortfunfacts.blogspot.com/>
>
> Here is the complete inventory for 1845 [with a few notes by me in
> square brackets], which might help in figuring out what case planes
> and rubber planes are NOT: 6 adzes 4 large square head axes 12
> grooving axes 8 screw augers [probably large =93T=94 augers, for
> boring holes in beams] 6 shell augers 1 brace [and] 36 bits 1 hand
> saw file 1 pair compasses 1 screw driver 4 gouges 1 small square, 6
> inch 3 assorted gimlets 4 spike gimlets 1 jointer plane 3 trying
> planes 4 jack planes 1 hand plane [probably a small smoothing plane]
> 2 pair grooving planes 11-1/8 [number meaning unclear] 3 bead planes
> 2 molding planes 1 hand saw 3 tenon saws 2 window planes 1 case
> plane 1 rubber plane 1 half round file 12 inches 3 bastard files 1
> pit saw file 1 cross cut saw file 2 rat tail files 3 flat bastard
> files 3 plough keys 1 oil stone 6 shingling axes 2 key hole saws 1
> pair pincers 10 assorted chisels 9 socket chisels 3 kent hammers 3
> foot rules
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------
> --------
> OldTools is a mailing list catering to the interests of hand tool
> aficionados, both collectors and users, to discuss the history, usage,
> value, location, availability, collectibility, and restoration of
> traditional handtools, especially woodworking tools.
>
> To change your subscription options:
> http://ruckus.law.cornell.edu/mailman/listinfo/oldtools
>
> To read the FAQ: http://swingleydev.com/archive/faq.html
>
> OldTools archive: http://swingleydev.com/archive/
>
> OldTools@r... http://ruckus.law.cornell.edu/mailman/listinfo/oldtools
>
------------------------------------------------------------------------

>From Ken Roberts "Wooden Planes in 19th Century America" (pg. 49
>plate VIII c):

The description comes from part of a listing by the Sandusky Tool Co.
about is numbering and line of planes. It also gives equivalents to
competitor's model numbers. This is an 1885 catalog and references an
previous catalog, so is close in time period to your list.

====================================

"Casing Moulding Plane, with Fence, to work on edge............... $
.80 to 1.00

Model number equivalency according to Sandusky by Mfg:

Sandusky 1885 cat: #19 Sandusky (prior #'s): #54 3/4 Ohio: 43 1/8
Auburn: 155 1/2 Chapin: 217 3/4 Greenfield: No entry

==================================

I would hazard a guess that the rubber plane, being listed next to
the window and case planes would be to cut/form weather-stripping of
some sort.

Brian J.M. Rytel brian.rytel@g...

On Thu, Aug 9, 2012 at 12:40 PM, Don Schwartz  wrote:
> On 8/9/2012 12:43 PM, Tom Holloway wrote:
>>
>> GGs, I've found some tool inventories of the carpenter shop of
>> Hudson's Bay Company's Fort Vancouver,
>
>
>> **
>
>
>>         Can anyone here describe for me, and/or point me to web
>>         resources on, mid-19th century woodworking tools known as
>>         "case plane" and "rubber plane"? TIA, Tom Holloway
>>         <http://furfortfunfacts.blogspot.com/>
>>
>> Here is the complete inventory for 1845 [with a few notes by me in
>> square brackets], which might help in figuring out what case planes
>> and rubber planes are NOT: 6 adzes 4 large square head axes 12
>> grooving axes 8 screw augers [probably large =93T=94 augers, for
>> boring holes in beams] 6 shell augers 1 brace [and] 36 bits 1 hand
>> saw file 1 pair compasses 1 screw driver 4 gouges 1 small square, 6
>> inch 3 assorted gimlets 4 spike gimlets 1 jointer plane 3 trying
>> planes 4 jack planes 1 hand plane [probably a small smoothing plane]
>> 2 pair grooving planes 11-1/8 [number meaning unclear] 3 bead planes
>> 2 molding planes 1 hand saw 3 tenon saws 2 window planes 1 case
>> plane 1 rubber plane 1 half round file 12 inches 3 bastard files 1
>> pit saw file 1 cross cut saw file 2 rat tail files 3 flat bastard
>> files 3 plough keys 1 oil stone 6 shingling axes 2 key hole saws 1
>> pair pincers 10 assorted chisels 9 socket chisels 3 kent hammers 3
>> foot rules
>>
> Well, to answer your question first, no. However, if the tools are
> listed in the order given, I note that the two items you're asking
> about are not listed with the large group of planes. The case plane
> falls right after the window planes, suggesting it may be associated
> with sash-making (casement?). The rubber plane precedes the files,
> suggesting it might be an abrasive tool of some sort.
>
> Worth what you paid Don
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------
> --------
> OldTools is a mailing list catering to the interests of hand tool
> aficionados, both collectors and users, to discuss the history, usage,
> value, location, availability, collectibility, and restoration of
> traditional handtools, especially woodworking tools.
>
> To change your subscription options:
> http://ruckus.law.cornell.edu/mailman/listinfo/oldtools
>
> To read the FAQ: http://swingleydev.com/archive/faq.html
>
> OldTools archive: http://swingleydev.com/archive/
>
> OldTools@r... http://ruckus.law.cornell.edu/mailman/listinfo/oldtools
------------------------------------------------------------------------

On 8/9/2012 12:43 PM, Tom Holloway wrote:
> GGs,
> > 	I've found some tool inventories of the carpenter shop of Hudson's Bay Comp
any's Fort Vancouver,

> **

> > 	Can anyone here describe for me, and/or point me to web resources on, mid-1
9th century woodworking tools known as "case plane" and "rubber plane"?
> 	TIA,
> 		Tom Holloway
> <http://furfortfunfacts.blogspot.com/>
>
> > Here is the complete inventory for 1845 [with a few notes by me in square br
ackets], which might help in figuring out what case planes and rubber planes are
 NOT:
> 6 adzes
> 4 large square head axes
> 12 grooving axes
> 8 screw augers [probably large “T” augers, for boring holes in beams]
> 6 shell augers
> 1 brace [and] 36 bits
> 1 hand saw file
> 1 pair compasses
> 1 screw driver
> 4 gouges
> 1 small square, 6 inch
> 3 assorted gimlets
> 4 spike gimlets
> 1 jointer plane
> 3 trying planes
> 4 jack planes
> 1 hand plane [probably a small smoothing plane]
> 2 pair grooving planes 11-1/8 [number meaning unclear]
> 3 bead planes
> 2 molding planes
> 1 hand saw
> 3 tenon saws
> 2 window planes
> 1 case plane									
> 1 rubber plane
> 1 half round file 12 inches
> 3 bastard files
> 1 pit saw file
> 1 cross cut saw file
> 2 rat tail files
> 3 flat bastard files
> 3 plough keys
> 1 oil stone
> 6 shingling axes
> 2 key hole saws
> 1 pair pincers
> 10 assorted chisels
> 9 socket chisels
> 3 kent hammers
> 3 foot rules
>
Well, to answer your question first, no. However, if the tools are 
listed in the order given, I note that the two items you're asking about 
are not listed with the large group of planes. The case plane falls 
right after the window planes, suggesting it may be associated with 
sash-making (casement?). The rubber plane precedes the files, suggesting 
it might be an abrasive tool of some sort.

Worth what you paid
Don
------------------------------------------------------------------------

 2 pair grooving planes 11-1/8 [number meaning unclear] 

Without seeing the original document and it's appearance, could this be
1(, or space) 1-1/8? As is 1 pair is a 1" groove and the other 1
1/8"? Those seem awfully large though. I guess that measurement could be
  of the (max) thickness of board they cut a groove in, not the width of
  the groove. A different guess would be a #11 and a 1/8" possibly what
  was marked on the planes themselves depending on origin.

The Sandusky Table listed in my prior message notes match planes up to 1
1/4" FWIW.

Brian J.M. Rytel brian.rytel@g...

On Thu, Aug 9, 2012 at 1:33 PM, Phil Schempf  wrote:
> Tom-
>
> I looked in Whelan. He listed neither directly. He has a section on
> casemakers and the specialized planes they used to create "air-tight
> cases". Generally the planes would create a shallow radiused groove or
> grooves that would mate with a raised bead creating a tighter joint
> than a simple butt join. They were used particularly on the edges of
> doors. Maybe they'd be used at remote posts to create a more element
> proof case than rougher cases, but I'm skeptical. It looks like some
> of them at least were used in pairs like match planes, but yielding a
> shallow joint that could be opened again.
>
> No mention at all of rubber planes, but what do you expect in a book
> about wooden planes.
>
> Phil
>
> On Thu, Aug 9, 2012 at 10:43 AM, Tom Holloway wrote:
>
>> GGs, I've found some tool inventories of the carpenter shop of
>> Hudson's Bay Company's Fort Vancouver, [
>> <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fort_Vancouver> for the historical
>> context, <http://www.nps.gov/fova/index.htm> for the modern National
>> Park Service reconstruction,] for 1845, that I hope someone can help
>> identify. Among the various types of planes that I CAN figure out
>> (see full inventory below). are listed "1 case plane" and 1 rubber
>> plane." I've tried searching both via Google and in the OT message
>> archive, but the various uses and alternative meanings of the two
>> separate words in each case yields only frustration. Can anyone here
>> describe for me, and/or point me to web resources on, mid-19th
>> century woodworking tools known as "case plane" and "rubber plane"?
>> TIA, Tom Holloway <http://furfortfunfacts.blogspot.com/>
>>
>> Here is the complete inventory for 1845 [with a few notes by me in
>> square brackets], which might help in figuring out what case planes
>> and rubber planes are NOT: 6 adzes 4 large square head axes 12
>> grooving axes 8 screw augers [probably large =93T=94 augers, for
>> boring holes in beams] 6 shell augers 1 brace [and] 36 bits 1 hand
>> saw file 1 pair compasses 1 screw driver 4 gouges 1 small square, 6
>> inch 3 assorted gimlets 4 spike gimlets 1 jointer plane 3 trying
>> planes 4 jack planes 1 hand plane [probably a small smoothing plane]
>> 2 pair grooving planes 11-1/8 [number meaning unclear] 3 bead planes
>> 2 molding planes 1 hand saw 3 tenon saws 2 window planes 1 case
>> plane 1 rubber plane 1 half round file 12 inches 3 bastard files 1
>> pit saw file 1 cross cut saw file 2 rat tail files 3 flat bastard
>> files 3 plough keys 1 oil stone 6 shingling axes 2 key hole saws 1
>> pair pincers 10 assorted chisels 9 socket chisels 3 kent hammers 3
>> foot rules
>>
>>
>> -----------------------------------------------------------------
>> -------
>> OldTools is a mailing list catering to the interests of hand tool
>> aficionados, both collectors and users, to discuss the history,
>> usage, value, location, availability, collectibility, and restoration
>> of traditional handtools, especially woodworking tools.
>>
>> To change your subscription options:
>> http://ruckus.law.cornell.edu/mailman/listinfo/oldtools
>>
>> To read the FAQ: http://swingleydev.com/archive/faq.html
>>
>> OldTools archive: http://swingleydev.com/archive/
>>
>> OldTools@r... http://ruckus.law.cornell.edu/mailman/listinfo/oldtools
>>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------
> --------
> OldTools is a mailing list catering to the interests of hand tool
> aficionados, both collectors and users, to discuss the history, usage,
> value, location, availability, collectibility, and restoration of
> traditional handtools, especially woodworking tools.
>
> To change your subscription options:
> http://ruckus.law.cornell.edu/mailman/listinfo/oldtools
>
> To read the FAQ: http://swingleydev.com/archive/faq.html
>
> OldTools archive: http://swingleydev.com/archive/
>
> OldTools@r... http://ruckus.law.cornell.edu/mailman/listinfo/oldtools
------------------------------------------------------------------------

Some web listing of model numbers related to the casing planes I posted:

Sandusky 54 3/4:

Listed as a Scotia plane with an added fence, based on the Sandusky
catalog, it's probably the fence was original:
http://www.oldtooluser.com/TypeStudy/complexmoulding.htm

FTJ 1/2 way down page. "B-457LOT OF FIVE CASING MOULDING PLANES.
Sandusky Tool Co. 54 3/4. Sizes 3/8, 1/2, 5/8, 7/8, and 1-1/4 wide. Good
and better 150 - 200"
https://www.finetoolj.com/ftj.php/auction/view/49/5

140.      4 =96 Wooden molding planes: Sandusky Tool, #54 =BD- =BE=94
          case molding, http://www.horstauction.com/Pix_catlgs_2011/201-
          1_07_09_tool_sale/sale20110709_tool_listing.htm

Auburn 155 1/2:

141/2" Quarter round or casing molding plane w/ fence to work on the
    edge . # 155 1/2 by Auburn Tool Co. Fine condition. Item #95 http://www.blum
tool.com/pages/95-
    1000.htm
    http://www.blumtool.com/pages/Antique%20Molding%20planes.htm

B-699.LOT OF FIVE MOULDING PLANES. Rowell & Gibson Quirk Ovolo and
Astragal, I. Kendall Ogee, E. W. Pennell Ogee and Bevel, Bradshaw Two
Bead Reeding and an Auburn Tool Co. No. 155 1/2 Casing Bead. Bottom of
page: https://www.finetoolj.com/ftj.php/auction/view/41/7

Brian J.M. Rytel brian.rytel@g...

On Thu, Aug 9, 2012 at 1:35 PM, Brian Rytel  wrote:
> From Ken Roberts "Wooden Planes in 19th Century America" (pg. 49 plate
> VIII c):
>
> The description comes from part of a listing by the Sandusky Tool Co.
> about is numbering and line of planes. It also gives equivalents to
> competitor's model numbers. This is an 1885 catalog and references an
> previous catalog, so is close in time period to your list.
>
> ====================================
>
> "Casing Moulding Plane, with Fence, to work on edge............... $
> .80 to 1.00
>
> Model number equivalency according to Sandusky by Mfg:
>
> Sandusky 1885 cat: #19 Sandusky (prior #'s): #54 3/4 Ohio: 43 1/8
> Auburn: 155 1/2 Chapin: 217 3/4 Greenfield: No entry
>
> ==================================
>
> I would hazard a guess that the rubber plane, being listed next to
> the window and case planes would be to cut/form weather-stripping of
> some sort.
>
> Brian J.M. Rytel brian.rytel@g...
>
>
> On Thu, Aug 9, 2012 at 12:40 PM, Don Schwartz  wrote:
>> On 8/9/2012 12:43 PM, Tom Holloway wrote:
>>>
>>> GGs, I've found some tool inventories of the carpenter shop of
>>> Hudson's Bay Company's Fort Vancouver,
>>
>>
>>> **
>>
>>
>>>         Can anyone here describe for me, and/or point me to web
>>>         resources on, mid-19th century woodworking tools known as
>>>         "case plane" and "rubber plane"? TIA, Tom Holloway
>>>         <http://furfortfunfacts.blogspot.com/>
>>>
>>> Here is the complete inventory for 1845 [with a few notes by me in
>>> square brackets], which might help in figuring out what case planes
>>> and rubber planes are NOT: 6 adzes 4 large square head axes 12
>>> grooving axes 8 screw augers [probably large =93T=94 augers, for
>>> boring holes in beams] 6 shell augers 1 brace [and] 36 bits 1 hand
>>> saw file 1 pair compasses 1 screw driver 4 gouges 1 small square, 6
>>> inch 3 assorted gimlets 4 spike gimlets 1 jointer plane 3 trying
>>> planes 4 jack planes 1 hand plane [probably a small smoothing plane]
>>> 2 pair grooving planes 11-1/8 [number meaning unclear] 3 bead planes
>>> 2 molding planes 1 hand saw 3 tenon saws 2 window planes 1 case
>>> plane 1 rubber plane 1 half round file 12 inches 3 bastard files 1
>>> pit saw file 1 cross cut saw file 2 rat tail files 3 flat bastard
>>> files 3 plough keys 1 oil stone 6 shingling axes 2 key hole saws 1
>>> pair pincers 10 assorted chisels 9 socket chisels 3 kent hammers 3
>>> foot rules
>>>
>> Well, to answer your question first, no. However, if the tools are
>> listed in the order given, I note that the two items you're asking
>> about are not listed with the large group of planes. The case plane
>> falls right after the window planes, suggesting it may be associated
>> with sash-making (casement?). The rubber plane precedes the files,
>> suggesting it might be an abrasive tool of some sort.
>>
>> Worth what you paid Don
>>
>> -----------------------------------------------------------------
>> -------
>> OldTools is a mailing list catering to the interests of hand tool
>> aficionados, both collectors and users, to discuss the history,
>> usage, value, location, availability, collectibility, and restoration
>> of traditional handtools, especially woodworking tools.
>>
>> To change your subscription options:
>> http://ruckus.law.cornell.edu/mailman/listinfo/oldtools
>>
>> To read the FAQ: http://swingleydev.com/archive/faq.html
>>
>> OldTools archive: http://swingleydev.com/archive/
>>
>> OldTools@r... http://ruckus.law.cornell.edu/mailman/listinfo/oldtools
------------------------------------------------------------------------

Tom, 

Don may be on to something. My gut feeling is that "rubber plane" means "a plane
 that rubs" or possibly "a plane to make something that rubs" rather than "a pla
ne made out of the material called rubber" or "a plane for cutting the material 
called rubber."

A fast check on-line suggested that "rubber" for the material was in use by the 
end of the 18th century (anyone have the OED? I didn't buy it when it was cheap,
 more fool me); however, I suspect that the abbreviated term was still rare in t
he 1840s, and that "caotchouc" or "india rubber" would have been more common. Fu
rthermore, vulcanization was patented only in 1844 and before vulcanization the 
uses for rubber were very limited since it became brittle in moderately cold wea
ther and sticky in moderately warm weather. With so few tools available at the B
ack of Beyond (fair enough, Tom?) I doubt they would have hauled along a special
 plane just for a rare and little-used material.

Tom Conroy
Berkeley

Don Schwartz wrote:
> GGs, The rubber plane precedes the files, suggesting 
it might be an abrasive tool of some sort.<

------------------------------------------------------------------------

While I have never heard of such, could it be some sort of plane-like tool
that is used to rub, or burnish the surface?  To my thinking, that is what
the name might imply.  My only other idea would be a tool to cut the groove
for a weatherstrip (made of rubber), but that sounds a bit wrong for the
time period.

Doc
 On Aug 10, 2012 7:48 AM, "Zachary Dillinger" 
wrote:

> My first thought was a long plane, for making rubbed edge joints, but
> I see the inventory has a jointer plane already and the rubber plane
> isn't listed with the bench planes. I suspect this might be one of
> those things that will be difficult to get a good answer on, as the
> eccentric nature of local names for tools makes it tough to figure
> out. For example, who would ever think a "cut and thrust" would refer
> to a dado plane? Doesn't make a whole lot of sense.
>
> If you look at the implied motion of "rubber plane", as in used to
> rub, rather than the material rubber, it might suggest a scrub plane
> or a scraper plane, neither of which explicitly appear on the
> inventory. I would expect them to be near the bench planes on the
> list, but I've seen historical inventories that are rather jumbled.
> Those are my best guesses but, as I said, I suspect this will be tough
> to deduce.
>
> --
> Zachary Dillinger
> The Eaton County Joinery
> www.theeatoncountyjoinery.com
> 517-231-3374
>
>
> On Fri, Aug 10, 2012 at 5:18 AM, Thomas Conroy 
> wrote:
> > Tom,
> >
> > Don may be on to something. My gut feeling is that "rubber plane" means
> "a plane that rubs" or possibly "a plane to make something that rubs"
> rather than "a plane made out of the material called rubber" or "a plane
> for cutting the material called rubber."
> >
> > A fast check on-line suggested that "rubber" for the material was in use
> by the end of the 18th century (anyone have the OED? I didn't buy it when
> it was cheap, more fool me); however, I suspect that the abbreviated term
> was still rare in the 1840s, and that "caotchouc" or "india rubber" would
> have been more common. Furthermore, vulcanization was patented only in 1844
> and before vulcanization the uses for rubber were very limited since it
> became brittle in moderately cold weather and sticky in moderately warm
> weather. With so few tools available at the Back of Beyond (fair enough,
> Tom?) I doubt they would have hauled along a special plane just for a rare
> and little-used material.
> >
> > Tom Conroy
> > Berkeley
> >
> >
> > Don Schwartz wrote:
> >> GGs, The rubber plane precedes the files, suggesting
> > it might be an abrasive tool of some sort.<
> >
> > ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> > OldTools is a mailing list catering to the interests of hand tool
> > aficionados, both collectors and users, to discuss the history, usage,
> > value, location, availability, collectibility, and restoration of
> > traditional handtools, especially woodworking tools.
> >
> > To change your subscription options:
> > http://ruckus.law.cornell.edu/mailman/listinfo/oldtools
> >
> > To read the FAQ:
> > http://swingleydev.com/archive/faq.html
> >
> > OldTools archive: http://swingleydev.com/archive/
> >
> > OldTools@r...
> > http://ruckus.law.cornell.edu/mailman/listinfo/oldtools
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> OldTools is a mailing list catering to the interests of hand tool
> aficionados, both collectors and users, to discuss the history, usage,
> value, location, availability, collectibility, and restoration of
> traditional handtools, especially woodworking tools.
>
> To change your subscription options:
> http://ruckus.law.cornell.edu/mailman/listinfo/oldtools
>
> To read the FAQ:
> http://swingleydev.com/archive/faq.html
>
> OldTools archive: http://swingleydev.com/archive/
>
> OldTools@r...
> http://ruckus.law.cornell.edu/mailman/listinfo/oldtools
>
------------------------------------------------------------------------

My first thought was a long plane, for making rubbed edge joints, but I
see the inventory has a jointer plane already and the rubber plane isn't
listed with the bench planes. I suspect this might be one of those
things that will be difficult to get a good answer on, as the eccentric
nature of local names for tools makes it tough to figure out. For
example, who would ever think a "cut and thrust" would refer to a dado
plane? Doesn't make a whole lot of sense.

If you look at the implied motion of "rubber plane", as in used to rub,
rather than the material rubber, it might suggest a scrub plane or a
scraper plane, neither of which explicitly appear on the inventory. I
would expect them to be near the bench planes on the list, but I've seen
historical inventories that are rather jumbled. Those are my best
guesses but, as I said, I suspect this will be tough to deduce.

--
Zachary Dillinger The Eaton County Joinery www.theeatoncountyjoinery.com
517-231-3374

On Fri, Aug 10, 2012 at 5:18 AM, Thomas Conroy
 wrote:
> Tom,
>
> Don may be on to something. My gut feeling is that "rubber plane"
> means "a plane that rubs" or possibly "a plane to make something that
> rubs" rather than "a plane made out of the material called rubber" or
> "a plane for cutting the material called rubber."
>
> A fast check on-line suggested that "rubber" for the material was in
> use by the end of the 18th century (anyone have the OED? I didn't buy
> it when it was cheap, more fool me); however, I suspect that the
> abbreviated term was still rare in the 1840s, and that "caotchouc" or
> "india rubber" would have been more common. Furthermore, vulcanization
> was patented only in 1844 and before vulcanization the uses for rubber
> were very limited since it became brittle in moderately cold weather
> and sticky in moderately warm weather. With so few tools available at
> the Back of Beyond (fair enough, Tom?) I doubt they would have hauled
> along a special plane just for a rare and little-used material.
>
> Tom Conroy Berkeley
>
>
> Don Schwartz wrote:
>> GGs, The rubber plane precedes the files, suggesting
> it might be an abrasive tool of some sort.<
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------
> --------
> OldTools is a mailing list catering to the interests of hand tool
> aficionados, both collectors and users, to discuss the history, usage,
> value, location, availability, collectibility, and restoration of
> traditional handtools, especially woodworking tools.
>
> To change your subscription options:
> http://ruckus.law.cornell.edu/mailman/listinfo/oldtools
>
> To read the FAQ: http://swingleydev.com/archive/faq.html
>
> OldTools archive: http://swingleydev.com/archive/
>
> OldTools@r... http://ruckus.law.cornell.edu/mailman/listinfo/oldtools
------------------------------------------------------------------------

Via the Online OED: mid 16th century: from the verb rub + -er1. The
original sense was 'an implement (such as a hard brush) used for
rubbing and cleaning.' Because an early use of the elastic substance
(previously known as caoutchouc) was to rub out pencil marks=2C rubber
gained the sense 'eraser' in the late 18th century The sense was
subsequently (mid 19th century) generalized to refer to the substance
in any form or use=2C at first often differentiated as India
rubberI.e.=2C a scrub plane.-T

> Date: Fri=2C 10 Aug 2012 08:48:17 -0400 Subject: Re: [OldTools] Re:
> Case plane / rubber plane? From: zacharydillinger@g... To:
> oldtools@r...
>> My first thought was a long plane=2C for making rubbed edge
>> joints=2C but
> I see the inventory has a jointer plane already and the rubber plane
> isn't listed with the bench planes. I suspect this might be one of
> those things that will be difficult to get a good answer on=2C as the
> eccentric nature of local names for tools makes it tough to figure
> out. For example=2C who would ever think a "cut and thrust" would
> refer to a dado plane? Doesn't make a whole lot of sense.
>> If you look at the implied motion of "rubber plane"=2C as in used to
> rub=2C rather than the material rubber=2C it might suggest a scrub
> plane or a scraper plane=2C neither of which explicitly appear on the
> inventory. I would expect them to be near the bench planes on the
> list=2C but I've seen historical inventories that are rather jumbled.
> Those are my best guesses but=2C as I said=2C I suspect this will be
> tough to deduce.
>> --
> Zachary Dillinger The Eaton County Joinery
> www.theeatoncountyjoinery.com 517-231-3374
>>> On Fri=2C Aug 10=2C 2012 at 5:18 AM=2C Thomas Conroy
>>>  wrote:
> > Tom=2C
> >
> > Don may be on to something. My gut feeling is that "rubber plane"
> > means "a plane that rubs" or possibly "a plane to make something
> > that rubs" rather than "a plane made out of the material called
> > rubber" or "a plane for cutting the material called rubber."
> >
> > A fast check on-line suggested that "rubber" for the material was in
> > use by the end of the 18th century (anyone have the OED? I didn't
> > buy it when it was cheap=2C more fool me)=3B however=2C I suspect
> > that the abbreviated term was still rare in the 1840s=2C and that
> > "caotchouc" or "india rubber" would have been more common.
> > Furthermore=2C vulcanization was patented only in 1844 and before
> > vulcanization the uses for rubber were very limited since it became
> > brittle in moderately cold weather and sticky in moderately warm
> > weather. With so few tools available at the Back of Beyond (fair
> > enough=2C Tom?) I doubt they would have hauled along a special plane
> > just for a rare and little-used material.
> >
> > Tom Conroy Berkeley
> >

                                          ------------------------------
                                          ------------------------------
                                          ------------

It's for planing wood from a rubber tree. I thought that was obvious.

Matthew Groves
Springfield, MO
------------------------------------------------------------------------

Interestingly, the OED cites a number of potential "rubber" tools for the
plasterer, stone mason and metalsmith.
Not sure which of the following if any apply to your inventory, but it
might give you some leads to pursue.
JL

A metal or stone implement used for rubbing, esp. in order to smooth or
flatten a surface. Now chiefly hist.

1794   D. Steel Elements Rigging & Seamanship 88   Rubber, a small iron
instrument, in a wooden handle, to rub down or flatten the seams.
1835   J. Holman Voy. round World III. xiv. 422   The plaster is..smoothed
with a rubber, until it acquires an even surface.
1850   C. Holtzapffel Turning & Mech. Manip. III. 1089   The Rubber used by
Masons and Statuaries is frequently a slab of grit stone, to which a handle
is attached by means of an iron strap.
1875   E. H. Knight Pract. Dict. Mech. 1997/1   In the moldings of stone,
an iron rubber mounted on a wooden stock is employed for fillets, beads,
and astragals.
1933   S. Casson Technique Early Greek Sculpt. i. i. 36   The hard stones
are worked with abrasive rubbers for the general surfaces and outlines.
2008   V. E. Szabo Monstrous Fishes & Mead-dark Sea v. 152   The most
common objects found on early sites include..maintenance implements
including combs, smoothers, rubbers.

A pad or roll of soft material used for rubbing and polishing, spec. a
piece of wadding wrapped in a cloth and used in the application of French
polish.

1839   A. Ure Dict. Arts 801   The polishing rubbers [for marble] are
coarse linen cloths, or bagging, wedged tight into an iron planing tool.

A large, coarse file, esp. one used for metalwork. In later use chiefly
more fully rubber file.

1678   J. Moxon Mech. Exercises I. i. 14   The Rough or Course Tooth'd File
(which if it be large is called a Rubber).
1771   Invoice 3 Dec. in G. Washington Papers (1993) VIII. 558,   4 Smiths
Rubber Files.
1837   J. Bennett in N. Whittock et al. Compl. Bk. Trades 225   The very
heavy files, such as smiths' rubbers, are made of the inferior marks of
blistered steel.
1846   C. Holtzapffel Turning & Mech. Manip. II. 825   Rubbers..measure
from 12 to 18 inches long,..and are made very convex.
1875   E. H. Knight Pract. Dict. Mech. 1997/2   Rubber-file, a heavy,
fish-bellied file, designated by weight, which varies from four to fifteen
pounds.
1905   Dental Cosmos 47 1001/1   With a rubber file or any flat rough file,
file the solder away outside the pins.
1916   Proc. National Acad. Sci. 2 128   The tools required in metallurgy,
as those for..shaping=97hammer, file, rubbers, polishers.
2000   Modelling & Painting Figures 22 (caption)    Begin the sanding with
a rubber file.
------------------------------------------------------------------------

So, following the logic of the information posted by John, perhaps the
rubber plane is a smooth plane. The inventory doesn't have one, unless 1
hand plane is a smooth plane per Tom's assumption.
--
Zachary Dillinger The Eaton County Joinery www.theeatoncountyjoinery.com
517-231-3374

On Fri, Aug 10, 2012 at 10:09 AM, John L  wrote:
> Interestingly, the OED cites a number of potential "rubber" tools for
> the plasterer, stone mason and metalsmith. Not sure which of the
> following if any apply to your inventory, but it might give you some
> leads to pursue. JL
>
>
> A metal or stone implement used for rubbing, esp. in order to smooth
> or flatten a surface. Now chiefly hist.
>
> 1794 D. Steel Elements Rigging & Seamanship 88 Rubber, a small iron
> instrument, in a wooden handle, to rub down or flatten the seams. 1835
> J. Holman Voy. round World III. xiv. 422 The plaster is..smoothed with
> a rubber, until it acquires an even surface. 1850 C. Holtzapffel
> Turning & Mech. Manip. III. 1089 The Rubber used by Masons and
> Statuaries is frequently a slab of grit stone, to which a handle is
> attached by means of an iron strap. 1875 E. H. Knight Pract. Dict.
> Mech. 1997/1 In the moldings of stone, an iron rubber mounted on a
> wooden stock is employed for fillets, beads, and astragals. 1933 S.
> Casson Technique Early Greek Sculpt. i. i. 36 The hard stones are
> worked with abrasive rubbers for the general surfaces and outlines.
> 2008 V. E. Szabo Monstrous Fishes & Mead-dark Sea v. 152 The most
> common objects found on early sites include..maintenance implements
> including combs, smoothers, rubbers.
>
>
> A pad or roll of soft material used for rubbing and polishing, spec. a
> piece of wadding wrapped in a cloth and used in the application of
> French polish.
>
> 1839 A. Ure Dict. Arts 801 The polishing rubbers [for marble] are
> coarse linen cloths, or bagging, wedged tight into an iron
> planing tool.
>
>
>
> A large, coarse file, esp. one used for metalwork. In later use
> chiefly more fully rubber file.
>
> 1678 J. Moxon Mech. Exercises I. i. 14 The Rough or Course Tooth'd
> File (which if it be large is called a Rubber). 1771 Invoice 3 Dec. in
> G. Washington Papers (1993) VIII. 558, 4 Smiths Rubber Files. 1837 J.
> Bennett in N. Whittock et al. Compl. Bk. Trades 225 The very heavy
> files, such as smiths' rubbers, are made of the inferior marks of
> blistered steel. 1846 C. Holtzapffel Turning & Mech. Manip. II. 825
> Rubbers..measure from 12 to 18 inches long,..and are made very convex.
> 1875 E. H. Knight Pract. Dict. Mech. 1997/2 Rubber-file, a heavy, fish-
> bellied file, designated by weight, which varies from four to fifteen
> pounds. 1905 Dental Cosmos 47 1001/1 With a rubber file or any flat
> rough file, file the solder away outside the pins. 1916 Proc. National
> Acad. Sci. 2 128 The tools required in metallurgy, as those
> for..shaping=97hammer, file, rubbers, polishers. 2000 Modelling &
> Painting Figures 22 (caption) Begin the sanding with a rubber file.
> ----------------------------------------------------------------
> --------
> OldTools is a mailing list catering to the interests of hand tool
> aficionados, both collectors and users, to discuss the history, usage,
> value, location, availability, collectibility, and restoration of
> traditional handtools, especially woodworking tools.
>
> To change your subscription options:
> http://ruckus.law.cornell.edu/mailman/listinfo/oldtools
>
> To read the FAQ: http://swingleydev.com/archive/faq.html
>
> OldTools archive: http://swingleydev.com/archive/
>
> OldTools@r... http://ruckus.law.cornell.edu/mailman/listinfo/oldtools
------------------------------------------------------------------------

Thanks to all who have ventured their thoughts and info on this matter.
To me, the logic of the citations John came up with calls to mind the
Stanley "Sure-Form" rasp, or one of those Japanese jobbies that look
like several hacksaw blades toothed on both sides and riveted together
like a grid of diamond-shaped spaces. Or maybe even a wood rasp as we
know it. Arguing against "another name for a smoothing plane" is that
surely whoever put the original list together would know the proper
name, and not invent a new name that none of us can now connect with a
common smoothing plane. FWIW, I never supposed "rubber plane" had
anything to with the *substance* we know as rubber, vulcanized or not. I
have thought along the lines of the action of rubbing. But I still don't
know why a plane would be called a "rubber plane." Would it help if I
mentioned that most of the carpenters on the payroll of Hudson's Bay
Co., which operated Fort Vancouver, were of French Canadian origin?
Could something have been lost in translation between a list provided by
a semi-literate French-speaking carpenter and the English clerk who was
compiling the inventory of the shop? Still a puzzlement. Tom H.

On Aug 10, 2012, at 7:30 AM, Zachary Dillinger
 wrote:
> So, following the logic of the information posted by John, perhaps the
> rubber plane is a smooth plane. The inventory doesn't have one, unless
> 1 hand plane is a smooth plane per Tom's assumption.
> --
> Zachary Dillinger The Eaton County Joinery
> www.theeatoncountyjoinery.com 517-231-3374
>>> On Fri, Aug 10, 2012 at 10:09 AM, John L  wrote:
>> Interestingly, the OED cites a number of potential "rubber" tools for
>> the plasterer, stone mason and metalsmith. Not sure which of the
>> following if any apply to your inventory, but it might give you some
>> leads to pursue. JL
>>>>>> A metal or stone implement used for rubbing, esp. in order to
>>>>>> smooth or
>> flatten a surface. Now chiefly hist.
>>>> 1794 D. Steel Elements Rigging & Seamanship 88 Rubber, a small iron
>> instrument, in a wooden handle, to rub down or flatten the seams.
>> 1835 J. Holman Voy. round World III. xiv. 422 The plaster
>> is..smoothed with a rubber, until it acquires an even surface. 1850
>> C. Holtzapffel Turning & Mech. Manip. III. 1089 The Rubber used by
>> Masons and Statuaries is frequently a slab of grit stone, to which a
>> handle is attached by means of an iron strap. 1875 E. H. Knight
>> Pract. Dict. Mech. 1997/1 In the moldings of stone, an iron rubber
>> mounted on a wooden stock is employed for fillets, beads, and
>> astragals. 1933 S. Casson Technique Early Greek Sculpt. i. i. 36 The
>> hard stones are worked with abrasive rubbers for the general surfaces
>> and outlines. 2008 V. E. Szabo Monstrous Fishes & Mead-dark Sea v.
>> 152 The most common objects found on early sites include..maintenance
>> implements including combs, smoothers, rubbers.
>>>>>> A pad or roll of soft material used for rubbing and polishing,
>>>>>> spec. a
>> piece of wadding wrapped in a cloth and used in the application of
>> French polish.
>>>> 1839 A. Ure Dict. Arts 801 The polishing rubbers [for marble] are
>> coarse linen cloths, or bagging, wedged tight into an iron
>> planing tool.
>>>>>>>> A large, coarse file, esp. one used for metalwork. In later use
>>>>>>>> chiefly
>> more fully rubber file.
>>>> 1678 J. Moxon Mech. Exercises I. i. 14 The Rough or Course
>>>> Tooth'd File
>> (which if it be large is called a Rubber). 1771 Invoice 3 Dec. in G.
>> Washington Papers (1993) VIII. 558, 4 Smiths Rubber Files. 1837 J.
>> Bennett in N. Whittock et al. Compl. Bk. Trades 225 The very heavy
>> files, such as smiths' rubbers, are made of the inferior marks of
>> blistered steel. 1846 C. Holtzapffel Turning & Mech. Manip. II. 825
>> Rubbers..measure from 12 to 18 inches long,..and are made very
>> convex. 1875 E. H. Knight Pract. Dict. Mech. 1997/2 Rubber-file, a
>> heavy, fish-bellied file, designated by weight, which varies from
>> four to fifteen pounds. 1905 Dental Cosmos 47 1001/1 With a rubber
>> file or any flat rough file, file the solder away outside the pins.
>> 1916 Proc. National Acad. Sci. 2 128 The tools required in
>> metallurgy, as those for..shaping=97hammer, file, rubbers, polishers.
>> 2000 Modelling & Painting Figures 22 (caption) Begin the sanding with
>> a rubber file.

------------------------------------------------------------------------

Boston or . . . some portions of the British Isles where, at least to
North American ears, final Rs seem to disappear into the ether. If HBC
carpenters were commonly French Canadian, its clerks were commonly British--
some Scottish but mostly English. I think we might be getting somewhere,
with Zach's further cogitations on the matter. I got these inventory
lists from typescripts made by a Park Service historian who was likely
not into old tools and technology, so it's very possible that he guessed
at the original documents (handwritten, of course), gave it his best
shot, and missed. Luckily the sources he used in the 1970s, at the
Hudson's Bay Company Archives in Winnipeg, are now available here in the
library of the Fort Vancouver National Historic Site, even if on
microfilm. Use of the latter medium is now facilitated somewhat by
digital readers that allow tweaking for contrast and shading
(brightness), so maybe I'll be able to see what he did not. If I get any
better results from consulting the archival originals of the tool
inventories, I'll report to the Group. Thanks again, Tom Holloway

On Aug 10, 2012, at 11:26 AM, Zachary Dillinger
 wrote:
> One more thing, the French word for rabbet is rabbat, which if you
> pronounced it in a typical French fashion (like Chevrolet), would
> sound like rabbah, which could easily be misheard as "rubber".
> --
> Zachary Dillinger The Eaton County Joinery
> www.theeatoncountyjoinery.com 517-231-3374
>>> On Fri, Aug 10, 2012 at 2:24 PM, Zachary Dillinger
>  wrote:
>> Tom,
>>>> Another thought has just occured to me, going along with the
>>>> "misheard
>> word" or mispronounciation of a word. What if the "rubber" plane is
>> really a "rebate" plane? I notice that there are no rabbet planes on
>> the inventory, and this would fit in with the general area of the
>> rubber plane on the list, being near other joint cutting planes, like
>> the case plane, and would be useful to make windows.
>> --
>> Zachary Dillinger The Eaton County Joinery
>> www.theeatoncountyjoinery.com 517-231-3374

        Tom Holloway <http://furfortfunfacts.blogspot.com/>

------------------------------------------------------------------------

Tom, you're assuming that rubber plane wasn't a proper name for a
smoothing plane at the time, in that area. As we all know (and as I
said), local tool names can be quite eccentric. Perhaps the person who
put the list together knew it as a rubber plane. The rubbers John cites
appear to be used to smooth surfaces, so a rubber plane would be used to
smooth plane surfaces. Hard to say. Not certain, of course. Just a
helpful guess.

I've never seen one a vintage example of those Japanese jobbies. Doesn't
mean they don't exist, but I've never seen one. And I have a hard time
believing that a rasp would be called a plane.

I almost included a question asking if anyone on the List speaks French,
as this smacks of an English-ization of a French word for a tool, but I
don't know what that French word would be. But I deleted it after a
brief investigation, not finding any connection between France and Fort
Vancouver. Thank you for the information regarding the background of the
carpenters. Surely this will help.
--
Zachary Dillinger The Eaton County Joinery www.theeatoncountyjoinery.com
517-231-3374

On Fri, Aug 10, 2012 at 1:40 PM, Tom Holloway  wrote:
> Thanks to all who have ventured their thoughts and info on this
> matter. To me, the logic of the citations John came up with calls to
> mind the Stanley "Sure-Form" rasp, or one of those Japanese jobbies
> that look like several hacksaw blades toothed on both sides and
> riveted together like a grid of diamond-shaped spaces. Or maybe even a
> wood rasp as we know it. Arguing against "another name for a smoothing
> plane" is that surely whoever put the original list together would
> know the proper name, and not invent a new name that none of us can
> now connect with a common smoothing plane. FWIW, I never supposed
> "rubber plane" had anything to with the *substance* we know as rubber,
> vulcanized or not. I have thought along the lines of the action of
> rubbing. But I still don't know why a plane would be called a "rubber
> plane." Would it help if I mentioned that most of the carpenters on
> the payroll of Hudson's Bay Co., which operated Fort Vancouver, were
> of French Canadian origin? Could something have been lost in
> translation between a list provided by a semi-literate French-speaking
> carpenter and the English clerk who was compiling the inventory of the
> shop? Still a puzzlement. Tom H.
>
>
> On Aug 10, 2012, at 7:30 AM, Zachary Dillinger
>  wrote:
>> So, following the logic of the information posted by John, perhaps
>> the rubber plane is a smooth plane. The inventory doesn't have one,
>> unless 1 hand plane is a smooth plane per Tom's assumption.
>> --
>> Zachary Dillinger The Eaton County Joinery
>> www.theeatoncountyjoinery.com 517-231-3374
>>
>>
>> On Fri, Aug 10, 2012 at 10:09 AM, John L  wrote:
>>> Interestingly, the OED cites a number of potential "rubber" tools
>>> for the plasterer, stone mason and metalsmith. Not sure which of the
>>> following if any apply to your inventory, but it might give you some
>>> leads to pursue. JL
>>>
>>>
>>> A metal or stone implement used for rubbing, esp. in order to smooth
>>> or flatten a surface. Now chiefly hist.
>>>
>>> 1794 D. Steel Elements Rigging & Seamanship 88 Rubber, a small iron
>>> instrument, in a wooden handle, to rub down or flatten the seams.
>>> 1835 J. Holman Voy. round World III. xiv. 422 The plaster
>>> is..smoothed with a rubber, until it acquires an even surface. 1850
>>> C. Holtzapffel Turning & Mech. Manip. III. 1089 The Rubber used by
>>> Masons and Statuaries is frequently a slab of grit stone, to which a
>>> handle is attached by means of an iron strap. 1875 E. H. Knight
>>> Pract. Dict. Mech. 1997/1 In the moldings of stone, an iron rubber
>>> mounted on a wooden stock is employed for fillets, beads, and
>>> astragals. 1933 S. Casson Technique Early Greek Sculpt. i. i. 36 The
>>> hard stones are worked with abrasive rubbers for the general
>>> surfaces and outlines. 2008 V. E. Szabo Monstrous Fishes & Mead-dark
>>> Sea v. 152 The most common objects found on early sites
>>> include..maintenance implements including combs, smoothers, rubbers.
>>>
>>>
>>> A pad or roll of soft material used for rubbing and polishing, spec.
>>> a piece of wadding wrapped in a cloth and used in the application of
>>> French polish.
>>>
>>> 1839 A. Ure Dict. Arts 801 The polishing rubbers [for marble] are
>>> coarse linen cloths, or bagging, wedged tight into an iron
>>> planing tool.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> A large, coarse file, esp. one used for metalwork. In later use
>>> chiefly more fully rubber file.
>>>
>>> 1678 J. Moxon Mech. Exercises I. i. 14 The Rough or Course Tooth'd
>>> File (which if it be large is called a Rubber). 1771 Invoice 3 Dec.
>>> in G. Washington Papers (1993) VIII. 558, 4 Smiths Rubber Files.
>>> 1837 J. Bennett in N. Whittock et al. Compl. Bk. Trades 225 The very
>>> heavy files, such as smiths' rubbers, are made of the inferior marks
>>> of blistered steel. 1846 C. Holtzapffel Turning & Mech. Manip. II.
>>> 825 Rubbers..measure from 12 to 18 inches long,..and are made very
>>> convex. 1875 E. H. Knight Pract. Dict. Mech. 1997/2 Rubber-file, a
>>> heavy, fish-bellied file, designated by weight, which varies from
>>> four to fifteen pounds. 1905 Dental Cosmos 47 1001/1 With a rubber
>>> file or any flat rough file, file the solder away outside the pins.
>>> 1916 Proc. National Acad. Sci. 2 128 The tools required in
>>> metallurgy, as those for..shaping=97hammer, file, rubbers,
>>> polishers. 2000 Modelling & Painting Figures 22 (caption) Begin the
>>> sanding with a rubber file.
>
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------
> --------
> OldTools is a mailing list catering to the interests of hand tool
> aficionados, both collectors and users, to discuss the history, usage,
> value, location, availability, collectibility, and restoration of
> traditional handtools, especially woodworking tools.
>
> To change your subscription options:
> http://ruckus.law.cornell.edu/mailman/listinfo/oldtools
>
> To read the FAQ: http://swingleydev.com/archive/faq.html
>
> OldTools archive: http://swingleydev.com/archive/
>
> OldTools@r... http://ruckus.law.cornell.edu/mailman/listinfo/oldtools
------------------------------------------------------------------------

There are at least two of us that speak French, Bruno and myself. I think
Don in Calgary can get himself into trouble in a Montreal bar as well......

Earlier there was a reference to "caouthchouc". That is the French word for
rubber (the material). In French Canada, it is a colloquialism for "Rubbers"
(the overshoes).

I know of no link to woodworking tools.

Ed in Ottawa, where rain is scarce.

------------------------------------------------------------------------

Tom,

Another thought has just occured to me, going along with the "misheard
word" or mispronounciation of a word.  What if the "rubber" plane is
really a "rebate" plane? I notice that there are no rabbet planes on
the inventory, and this would fit in with the general area of the
rubber plane on the list, being near other joint cutting planes, like
the case plane, and would be useful to make windows.
--
Zachary Dillinger
The Eaton County Joinery
www.theeatoncountyjoinery.com
517-231-3374
------------------------------------------------------------------------

One more thing, the French word for rabbet is rabbat, which if you
pronounced it in a typical French fashion (like Chevrolet), would
sound like rabbah, which could easily be misheard as "rubber".
--
Zachary Dillinger
The Eaton County Joinery
www.theeatoncountyjoinery.com
517-231-3374

On Fri, Aug 10, 2012 at 2:24 PM, Zachary Dillinger
 wrote:
> Tom,
>
> Another thought has just occured to me, going along with the "misheard
> word" or mispronounciation of a word.  What if the "rubber" plane is
> really a "rebate" plane? I notice that there are no rabbet planes on
> the inventory, and this would fit in with the general area of the
> rubber plane on the list, being near other joint cutting planes, like
> the case plane, and would be useful to make windows.
> --
> Zachary Dillinger
> The Eaton County Joinery
> www.theeatoncountyjoinery.com
> 517-231-3374
------------------------------------------------------------------------

Seeing as it's a dark and rainy day, I chased down the rabbit
hole................

I went looking to see if there were any French references I could find, and
the only thing I came up with is a "Rabot a Lisier" which is a "Liquid
Manure Plane" which you mount to the three-point hitch on a tractor. It has
a wide rubber strip (the caoutchouc) which rides along the ground and pushes
the material in front of it, much in the manner of an oversized squeegee.
And there you have yet another bit of trivia added to the Archives on the
Porch.

Cheers, ed in ottawa

------------------------------------------------------------------------

Perhaps, but only if you were from the Bronx or
Boston.......................

Running and

D
U
C
K
I
N
g

-----Original Message-----

One more thing, the French word for rabbet is rabbat, which if you
pronounced it in a typical French fashion (like Chevrolet), would sound like
rabbah, which could easily be misheard as "rubber".
--

------------------------------------------------------------------------

in the online OED there's a definition of "rubber" as "a metal or stone
implement used for rubbing, esp. in order to smooth or flatten a
surface. now chiefly hist."

in the examples, there's one by holtzapffel from 1850: "the rubber used
by masons and statuaries is frequently a slab of grit stone, to which a
handle is attached by means of an iron strap". there's also one from
e.h. knight in 1875: "in the moldings of stone, an iron rubber mounted
on a wooden stock is employed for fillets, beads, and astragals."

bill felton, ca

On Aug 10, 2012, at 3:09 PM, Sgt42RHR@a... wrote:

> Tom, having recently spent days in the Sussex County VA County Clerks
> =20 office looking at early 19th century hand written land records,
> deeds, wills, > and the like, how certain are you that the writing
> actually says "rubber"?
>> Just a thought. Also, what is the earliest use we have of the
>> word =20
> Rubber? What do period dictionaries say? Grasping at straws here, but
> just> coming at from another angle.
>> Cheers,
> John
>> Would it help if I mentioned that most of the carpenters on the
>> payroll of> Hudson's Bay Co., which operated Fort Vancouver, were of
>> French Canadian> origin? Could something have been lost in
>> translation between a list=20
> provided by a semi-literate French-speaking carpenter and the English
> clerk who> was compiling the inventory of the shop? Still a
> puzzlement.
------------------------------------------------------------------------

Well now if we're not working with original documents but rather
potentially faulty second party transcriptions, then maybe your "rubber"
plane is really a "router" plane, as in "woman's tooth."
JL
------------------------------------------------------------------------

Tom, having recently spent days in the Sussex County VA County Clerks  
office looking at early 19th century hand written land records, deeds, wills,  
and the like, how certain are  you that the writing actually says  "rubber"?
 
Just a thought.  Also, what is the earliest use we have of the word  
Rubber?  What do period dictionaries say?   Grasping at straws  here, but just 
coming at from another angle.
 
Cheers,
John

Would it help if I mentioned that most of the  carpenters on the payroll of 
Hudson's Bay Co., which operated Fort Vancouver,  were of French Canadian 
origin? Could something have been lost in translation  between a list 
provided by a semi-literate French-speaking carpenter and the  English clerk who
 
was compiling the inventory of the shop?
Still a puzzlement.
------------------------------------------------------------------------

I have a 1775 Bailey's dictionary which offers the following definition for
the word "Rubber":

      "One that rubs; also the Instrument with which one rubs."  That's It.

I believe that Rubber in the context that we know it, is an early to mid
19th century term.

Hope that's some help.

				Your Most Humble Servant,

					Walt Henderson

----------------------------------------------------
                     Henderson & Vinci
              Historical Cabinetmakers
                 205 Birch Street, N.E.
          Leesburg, Virginia  20176-4521
                    (703) 777-3923

      Funerals Perform' At the Shortest Notice 
----------------------------------------------------

 

-----Original Message-----
From: oldtools-bounces@r...
[mailto:oldtools-bounces@r...] On Behalf Of
Sgt42RHR@a...
Sent: Friday, August 10, 2012 6:09 PM
To: oldtools@r...
Subject: Re: [OldTools] Case plane / rubber plane?

Tom, having recently spent days in the Sussex County VA County Clerks office
looking at early 19th century hand written land records, deeds, wills, and
the like, how certain are  you that the writing actually says  "rubber"?
 
Just a thought.  Also, what is the earliest use we have of the word  
Rubber?  What do period dictionaries say?   Grasping at straws  here, but
just 
coming at from another angle.
 
Cheers,
John

Would it help if I mentioned that most of the  carpenters on the payroll of
Hudson's Bay Co., which operated Fort Vancouver,  were of French Canadian
origin? Could something have been lost in translation  between a list
provided by a semi-literate French-speaking carpenter and the  English clerk
who was compiling the inventory of the shop?
Still a puzzlement.
------------------------------------------------------------------------

After eading thousands of pages of 18th and 19th Cent. Script I vote for
a reread. If there are doubts always say it out loud and look at the
other words in the list you are sure of.......then hope.......

I expect a rabbit, rebbet=A0

Of course it could always be simply a Plain rubber.

Jim Parker


________________________________
From: Tom Dugan  To: OLDTOOLS  Sent:
Fri, August 10, 2012 7:36:11 PM Subject: RE: [OldTools] Case plane /
rubber plane?



> Just a thought.=A0 Also, what is the earliest use we have of the
> word=A0 Rubber?=A0 What do period dictionaries say?=A0 Grasping
> at straws=A0 here, but just coming at from another angle. =A0
> Cheers, John
>

As I posted earlier: mid 16th century: from the verb rub + -er. The
original sense was 'an implement (such as a hard brush) used for rubbing
and cleaning'. Because an early use of the elastic substance (previously
known as caoutchouc)was to rub out pencil marks, rubber gained the sense
'eraser' in the late 18th century The sense was subsequently (mid 19th
century) generalized to refer to the substance in any form or use, at
first often differentiated as India rubber

IF "rubber" is what was originally written, my vote is for a scrub
plane. -T =A0=A0=A0 =A0=A0=A0 =A0=A0=A0 =A0 =A0=A0=A0 =A0=A0=A0 =A0
------------------------------------------------------------------------
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aficionados, both collectors and users, to discuss the history, usage,
value, location, availability, collectibility, and restoration of
traditional handtools, especially woodworking tools.

To change your subscription options:
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> Just a thought. Also=2C what is the earliest use we have of the word >
> Rubber? What do period dictionaries say? Grasping at straws here=2C
> but just> coming at from another angle.
> > Cheers=2C
> John
>
As I posted earlier: mid 16th century: from the verb rub + -er. The
original sense was 'an implement (such as a hard brush) used for rubbing
and cleaning'. Because an early use of the elastic substance (previously
known as caoutchouc)was to rub out pencil marks=2C rubber gained the
sense 'eraser' in the late 18th century The sense was subsequently (mid
19th century) generalized to refer to the substance in any form or
use=2C at first often differentiated as India rubber

IF "rubber" is what was originally written=2C my vote is for a
scrub plane. -T
                                          ------------------------------
                                          ------------------------------
                                          ------------

Since spelling is a common problem and transcribing hand written documents 
is more art than science perhaps "rubber" is a mistake. As most of us can 
attest some old tools have had a hard life. Someone may have kicked the "S" 
out of a scrub plane.

Okay back under the porch.

Dave N.
aka Old Sneelock

-----Original Message----- 
From: John L
Sent: Friday, August 10, 2012 5:12 PM
To: oldtools@r...
Subject: Re: [OldTools] Re: Case plane / rubber plane?

Well now if we're not working with original documents but rather
potentially faulty second party transcriptions, then maybe your "rubber"
plane is really a "router" plane, as in "woman's tooth."
JL
------------------------------------------------------------------------

Galoots-

At the risk of repeating myself, let me repeat myself.  Whelan has several
figures of casement or casemakers plane profiles in his book.  Fig 13:94
show planes to make an "Air-tight Case".  Most would create a raised
rounded rib on one door and a matching groove on the other to create the
more than less air-tight seal.  Another type creates a joint analogous to
cupping your fingers and hooking your hands together.  These planes were
reportedly used to make gentlemen's display cases for their oddities,
similar to museum cases today.

Fig. 13:72 illustrates profiles for French casement seals.  Some of these
bear a resemblance to the plane in Gary's link.

My thought was that a casemakersplane could be used to create a more
weather proof case for shipping fragile items between posts, but it looks
like most of these were used in pairs to create the matching profiles.  A
plane to make tighter window casings to deter Canadian winters may be more
likely.

Phil

On Sat, Aug 11, 2012 at 9:11 AM, Gary Roberts  wrote:

>
> So it may depend on what form early Canadian door casings look like?
> Forget the whole Gutta Percha angle for a moment and I wonder if there was
> ever any attempt to insert a canvas strip or something similar in door
> casings to cut drafts?
>
------------------------------------------------------------------------

On Aug 11, 2012, at 10:02 AM, Gary Roberts  wrote:
> Can you get an image of the relevant original entries? [rest snipped,
> per FAQ]

        Yes. But first: I got the list I posted from John A. Hussey,
        _Historic Structure Report, Historical Data, Volume II, Fort
        Vancouver National Historic Site, Washington_, (Denver: National
        Park Service, Denver Service Center, 1976) typescript. Anyone
        interested can download a PDF here: <http://www.nps.gov/fova/hi-
        storyculture/upload/Hussey%20HSR%202.pdf> The inventories of the
        carpenter shop "articles in use" are on pp. 407-11. They date
        from 1844, 1845, 1847, and 1848. "Case plane" and "rubber plane"
        appear only on the list for 1845 (pp.409-10). No "rabbit plane"
        appears in the 1845 list, but that name DOES appear on the lists
        for right before and after 1845. That in itself argues for a
        misreading of the original document when transcribing the 1845
        list, mistaking "rabbit" for "rubber." To answer Gary more
        completely: Hussey did his research in the Hudson's Bay Co.
        Archives in Winnipeg, Manitoba. Since he worked the archives
        have been microfilmed, and a couple of years ago the library at
        Ft. Vancouver NHS acquired what is supposed to be a full
        collection, on film, of materials relating to the Columbia
        Department (the HBC territory west of the Rocky Mountains, of
        which Ft. Vancouver was the HQ from 1824 to 1846). I have
        recently begun working through that sizable collection, and I
        feel confident that the inventories Hussey used are in there
        somewhere. Unfortunately the film rolls are labeled in the most
        general way, and there does not seem to be an index using the
        original archival reference numbers (which appear in Hussey's
        footnotes) pegged to the film rolls. So I might run across the
        original manuscript documents soon, by calculated guessing as to
        which film roll to look at, or it might take a while. In the
        meantime, a consensus seems to be building, reinforced by
        internal evidence (the chronologically contiguous inventories
        mentioned above) and external evidence (virtually assembled
        Porch wisdom that no "rubber plane" existed with that name),
        that the "rubber plane" appearing in the 1845 inventory was a
        misreading of the archival document, resulting in a
        mistranscription in the typed report. Thanks again for your
        interest in this topic, the discussion of which has been most
        helpful. When I have more, I'll report to the group. Tom
        Holloway <http://furfortfunfacts.blogspot.com/>

------------------------------------------------------------------------

Tom

Can you get an image of the relevant original entries? Not to doubt
your reading of the entries, but it might help to pinpoint what was
referred to.

There are two molding planes listed so I am inclined to say the Casing
plane is not a simple molding plane. I do lean towards it's being a
Canadian style window casement plane as has been suggested although
there are two window planes already listed. Those two might be a pair of
sash planes? Casement planes were made in pairs which makes me wonder
why only one is listed unless the other was lost.

The question may lie in what was a Casing in mid 19th Century BC
building construction? Something to do with door construction or other
parts of windows? Unfortunately I don't' have any Canada specific
architectural books on hand to check.

The rubber plane is one that I wonder about on the spelling. There are 3
plough keys listed which don't fit any name I can think of in the tool
lexicon unless that refers to a European style plough plane of some sort
and the adjustment mechanism.

I wonder if a leather working tool crept into the woodworking list and
this is a piece of tanners equipment for prepping hides?

Gary ............................... Gary Roberts http://toolemera.com

"I'ld rather read a good book, than write a poor one."
Christopher Morley

On Aug 9, 2012, at 2:43 PM, Tom Holloway  wrote:

> GGs, I've found some tool inventories of the carpenter shop of
> Hudson's Bay Company's Fort Vancouver, [
> <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fort_Vancouver> for the historical
> context, <http://www.nps.gov/fova/index.htm> for the modern National
> Park Service reconstruction,] for 1845, that I hope someone can help
> identify. Among the various types of planes that I CAN figure out (see
> full inventory below). are listed "1 case plane" and 1 rubber plane."
> I've tried searching both via Google and in the OT message archive,
> but the various uses and alternative meanings of the two separate
> words in each case yields only frustration. Can anyone here describe
> for me, and/or point me to web resources on, mid-19th century
> woodworking tools known as "case plane" and "rubber plane"? TIA, Tom
> Holloway <http://furfortfunfacts.blogspot.com/>
>> Here is the complete inventory for 1845 [with a few notes by me in
>> square brackets], which might help in figuring out what case planes
>> and rubber planes are NOT:> 6 adzes
> 4 large square head axes 12 grooving axes 8 screw augers [probably
> large =93T=94 augers, for boring holes in beams] 6 shell augers 1
> brace [and] 36 bits> 1 hand saw file 1 pair compasses 1 screw driver 4
> gouges 1 small square, 6 inch 3 assorted gimlets 4 spike gimlets 1
> jointer plane 3 trying planes 4 jack planes 1 hand plane [probably a
> small smoothing plane] 2 pair grooving planes 11-1/8 [number meaning
> unclear] 3 bead planes 2 molding planes 1 hand saw 3 tenon saws 2
> window planes 1 case plane =09 1 rubber plane 1 half round file 12
> inches 3 bastard files 1 pit saw file 1 cross cut saw file 2 rat tail
> files 3 flat bastard files 3 plough keys 1 oil stone 6 shingling axes
> 2 key hole saws 1 pair pincers 10 assorted chisels 9 socket chisels 3
> kent hammers 3 foot rules
>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------
>>> ------
> OldTools is a mailing list catering to the interests of hand tool
> aficionados, both collectors and users, to discuss the history, usage,
> value, location, availability, collectibility, and restoration of
> traditional handtools, especially woodworking tools.
>> To change your subscription options:
> http://ruckus.law.cornell.edu/mailman/listinfo/oldtools
>> To read the FAQ:
> http://swingleydev.com/archive/faq.html
>> OldTools archive: http://swingleydev.com/archive/ OldTools@r...
> http://ruckus.law.cornell.edu/mailman/listinfo/oldtools

------------------------------------------------------------------------

And a PS

There is this link, which may already have been alluded to:

http://www.museevirtuel-virtualmuseum.ca/sgc-cms/histoires_de_chez_nous-
community_memories/pm_v2.php?id=search_record_detail&fl=0&lg=English&ex-
=00000727&rd=184125&sy=itm&st=&ci=43

It's a reformed wide molding plane that someone has named a Door Casing
Plane of Canadian origin.

So it may depend on what form early Canadian door casings look like?
Forget the whole Gutta Percha angle for a moment and I wonder if there
was ever any attempt to insert a canvas strip or something similar in
door casings to cut drafts?

Gary ............................... Gary Roberts http://toolemera.com

"I'ld rather read a good book, than write a poor one."
Christopher Morley

On Aug 9, 2012, at 2:43 PM, Tom Holloway  wrote:

> GGs, I've found some tool inventories of the carpenter shop of
> Hudson's Bay Company's Fort Vancouver, [
> <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fort_Vancouver> for the historical
> context, <http://www.nps.gov/fova/index.htm> for the modern National
> Park Service reconstruction,] for 1845, that I hope someone can help
> identify. Among the various types of planes that I CAN figure out (see
> full inventory below). are listed "1 case plane" and 1 rubber plane."
> I've tried searching both via Google and in the OT message archive,
> but the various uses and alternative meanings of the two separate
> words in each case yields only frustration. Can anyone here describe
> for me, and/or point me to web resources on, mid-19th century
> woodworking tools known as "case plane" and "rubber plane"? TIA, Tom
> Holloway <http://furfortfunfacts.blogspot.com/>
>> Here is the complete inventory for 1845 [with a few notes by me in
>> square brackets], which might help in figuring out what case planes
>> and rubber planes are NOT:> 6 adzes
> 4 large square head axes 12 grooving axes 8 screw augers [probably
> large =93T=94 augers, for boring holes in beams] 6 shell augers 1
> brace [and] 36 bits> 1 hand saw file 1 pair compasses 1 screw driver 4
> gouges 1 small square, 6 inch 3 assorted gimlets 4 spike gimlets 1
> jointer plane 3 trying planes 4 jack planes 1 hand plane [probably a
> small smoothing plane] 2 pair grooving planes 11-1/8 [number meaning
> unclear] 3 bead planes 2 molding planes 1 hand saw 3 tenon saws 2
> window planes 1 case plane =09 1 rubber plane 1 half round file 12
> inches 3 bastard files 1 pit saw file 1 cross cut saw file 2 rat tail
> files 3 flat bastard files 3 plough keys 1 oil stone 6 shingling axes
> 2 key hole saws 1 pair pincers 10 assorted chisels 9 socket chisels 3
> kent hammers 3 foot rules
>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------
>>> ------
> OldTools is a mailing list catering to the interests of hand tool
> aficionados, both collectors and users, to discuss the history, usage,
> value, location, availability, collectibility, and restoration of
> traditional handtools, especially woodworking tools.
>> To change your subscription options:
> http://ruckus.law.cornell.edu/mailman/listinfo/oldtools
>> To read the FAQ:
> http://swingleydev.com/archive/faq.html
>> OldTools archive: http://swingleydev.com/archive/ OldTools@r...
> http://ruckus.law.cornell.edu/mailman/listinfo/oldtools

------------------------------------------------------------------------

Phil

Yup. I've seen Canadian casement planes consisting of two large half
rounds side by side, the planes in pairs male and female, something sure
to ward off those nasty north winds.

Then there are, as you point out, the European versions for making air
tight cases of which I have one or two kicking around somewhere in the
basement. Little things for making joints for display cases for those
folks who have nothing better to do with their lives than collect stuff
like butterflies, bugs, old tools=85. oh, sorry.

Gary ............................... Gary Roberts http://toolemera.com

"I'ld rather read a good book, than write a poor one."
Christopher Morley

On Aug 11, 2012, at 1:45 PM, Phil Schempf  wrote:

> Galoots-
>> At the risk of repeating myself, let me repeat myself. Whelan has
>> several
> figures of casement or casemakers plane profiles in his book. Fig
> 13:94 show planes to make an "Air-tight Case". Most would create a
> raised rounded rib on one door and a matching groove on the other to
> create the more than less air-tight seal. Another type creates a joint
> analogous to cupping your fingers and hooking your hands together.
> These planes were reportedly used to make gentlemen's display cases
> for their oddities, similar to museum cases today.
>> Fig. 13:72 illustrates profiles for French casement seals. Some
>> of these
> bear a resemblance to the plane in Gary's link.
>> My thought was that a casemakersplane could be used to create a more
> weather proof case for shipping fragile items between posts, but it
> looks like most of these were used in pairs to create the matching
> profiles. A plane to make tighter window casings to deter Canadian
> winters may be more likely.
>> Phil On Sat, Aug 11, 2012 at 9:11 AM, Gary Roberts
>>  wrote:
>>>>> So it may depend on what form early Canadian door casings look
>>>>> like?
>> Forget the whole Gutta Percha angle for a moment and I wonder if
>> there was ever any attempt to insert a canvas strip or something
>> similar in door casings to cut drafts?
>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------
>>> ------
> OldTools is a mailing list catering to the interests of hand tool
> aficionados, both collectors and users, to discuss the history, usage,
> value, location, availability, collectibility, and restoration of
> traditional handtools, especially woodworking tools.
>> To change your subscription options:
> http://ruckus.law.cornell.edu/mailman/listinfo/oldtools
>> To read the FAQ:
> http://swingleydev.com/archive/faq.html
>> OldTools archive: http://swingleydev.com/archive/ OldTools@r...
> http://ruckus.law.cornell.edu/mailman/listinfo/oldtools

------------------------------------------------------------------------

Tom

Thanks for posting the link. Now I have something good to read while waiting for
 the next Charlaine Harris book!

Rabbit for Rubber does make sense, especially if you cook your rabbit too long a
nd the stew becomes thick and gummy.

Gary
...............................
Gary Roberts
http://toolemera.com

"I'ld rather read a good book, than write a poor one." Christopher Morley

On Aug 11, 2012, at 2:31 PM, Tom Holloway  wrote:

> On Aug 11, 2012, at 10:02 AM, Gary Roberts  wrote:
>> Can you get an image of the relevant original entries? 
> 	[rest snipped, per FAQ]
> 
> > 	Yes. But first: I got the list I posted from John A. Hussey, _Historic Stru
cture Report, Historical Data, Volume II, Fort Vancouver National Historic Site,
 Washington_, (Denver: National Park Service, Denver Service Center, 1976) types
cript. Anyone interested can download a PDF here:
> <http://www.nps.gov/fova/historyculture/upload/Hussey%20HSR%202.pdf>
> > The inventories of the carpenter shop "articles in use" are on pp. 407-11. T
hey date from 1844, 1845, 1847, and 1848. "Case plane" and "rubber plane" appear
 only on the list for 1845 (pp.409-10). No "rabbit plane" appears in the 1845 li
st, but that name DOES appear on the lists for right before and after 1845. That
 in itself argues for a misreading of the original document when transcribing th
e 1845 list, mistaking "rabbit" for "rubber."
> > 	To answer Gary more completely: Hussey did his research in the Hudson's Bay
 Co. Archives in Winnipeg, Manitoba. Since he worked the archives have been micr
ofilmed, and a couple of years ago the library at Ft. Vancouver NHS acquired wha
t is supposed to be a full collection, on film, of materials relating to the Col
umbia Department (the HBC territory west of the Rocky Mountains, of which Ft. Va
ncouver was the HQ from 1824 to 1846). I have recently begun working through tha
t sizable collection, and I feel confident that the inventories Hussey used are 
in there somewhere. Unfortunately the film rolls are labeled in the most general
 way, and there does not seem to be an index using the original archival referen
ce numbers (which appear in Hussey's footnotes) pegged to the film rolls. So I m
ight run across the original manuscript documents soon, by calculated guessing a
s to which film roll to look at, or it might take a while.
> > 	In the meantime, a consensus seems to be building, reinforced by internal e
vidence (the chronologically contiguous inventories mentioned above) and externa
l evidence (virtually assembled Porch wisdom that no "rubber plane" existed with
 that name), that the "rubber plane" appearing in the 1845 inventory was a misre
ading of the archival document, resulting in a mistranscription in the typed rep
ort.
> > 	Thanks again for your interest in this topic, the discussion of which has b
een most helpful. When I have more, I'll report to the group.
> 		Tom Holloway
> <http://furfortfunfacts.blogspot.com/>
> 
> 
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> OldTools is a mailing list catering to the interests of hand tool
> aficionados, both collectors and users, to discuss the history, usage,
> value, location, availability, collectibility, and restoration of
> traditional handtools, especially woodworking tools.
> 
> To change your subscription options:
> http://ruckus.law.cornell.edu/mailman/listinfo/oldtools
> 
> To read the FAQ:
> http://swingleydev.com/archive/faq.html
> 
> OldTools archive: http://swingleydev.com/archive/
> 
> OldTools@r...
> http://ruckus.law.cornell.edu/mailman/listinfo/oldtools

------------------------------------------------------------------------