OldTools Archive

Recent Bios FAQ

178583 "Waylan Limberg" <waylan@g...> 2008‑03‑26 Bio: Waylan Limberg
I joined back in January and have been following along with a couple
short responses along the way, but figured it's time to post my bio.
What I've seen in the last few months has been great, and I'd like to
stick around for awhile. Maybe, someday, I'll even have something to
give back.

My first real exposer to old tools was my grandfather's shop. He ran a
shall boat repair business on Chautauqua Lake (Jamestown) in
Southwestern New York State. I remember shelves of old wooden block
planes in various shapes and sizes, among other things that anyone
here would be sure to drool over. He also had is fair share of
electron killers as they're often caller here. From my father's
comments, I gather he mixed the use of both in his daily work.

Unfortunately, he retired when I was 12-13 years old. He was 79! The
city forced him to sell the shop for next to nothing because they
wanted the property for new highway department buildings (the next
year the newly elected mayor threw out that plan and the lot now sits
empty), so he contacted an auctioneer. The auctioneer got him to sign
a contract on the spot and immediately advertised the auction. By the
time my father found out it was to late and the auctioneer only pulled
one major item from the sale that wasn't specifically listed in the
ads. So we didn't get anything except an old electric planer (hm, it's
just sitting in my father's shed - maybe I'll try restoring it
someday). Everything else went in the auction. My dad tried bidding on
a few things, but the prices went too high.

Fast forward almost 20 years and I'm working a desk job because of a
physical limitation that makes it painful to be on my feet all day.
Not to complain, but I do get the urge to make/do things with my
hands. My father recently wanted to make some more room in his shop
and let me go through a bunch of old tools that came from my
grandfather's basement (thus saved from the auction) and I found a few
nice treasures my Dad didn't even know were in there. Sorry Dad, I'm
keeping them. I've also started to gather my own collection er...
arsenal of old tools. Not only are they more enjoyable to use, but I
live in an apartment and can't be disturbing the neighbors with
whirring motors and all that.

Old tools are hardly the only thing I'm fascinated by. Old furniture,
old architecture and old bicycles get their fair share of my mind and
time. Currently most of the furniture in our apartment is old stuff
from my wifes grandmother and it all needs refinishing or more.

Speaking of which, we have an old desk in the shape of a quarter
circle with a leather pad inlayed in the top. It's a beautiful old
desk, but the finish (I'm guessing varnish) is chipped in high use
areas and I'm not sure how to approach the leather top. I don't want
to have to replace the leather or the gold leafing border on it. It
appears there is some kind of finish over the leather, but I don't
know what - maybe the same at the wood or maybe just a wax or
something. Any suggestions on how to refinish the desk without ruining
the leather?

-- 
----
Waylan Limberg
waylan@g...
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178615 "Bill Taggart" <wtaggart@c...> 2008‑03‑27 RE: Bio: Waylan Limberg
Welcome to the Porch, Waylan.

That desk likely is finished with shellac (which, as you've probably
noticed, is a recurring theme here).  To find out, take a Q-tip and dip it
in alcohol - isopropyl rubbing alcohol will work, or even vodka, if you
happen to have any about.  Rub the Q-tip on the finish in a spot that you
plan on refinishing anyhow.  If the finish softens up and sticks to the
Q-tip, it's shellac.  Which would be good for you because shellac is easier
to repair than varnish.

I'd think that you could mask off the leather and just be careful in working
near its edges when working on the wood.

Dunno much about repairing the leather, but I'd bet 17 donuts that if you
did a little creative Googling, the information is out there.  It always is,
in my experience.

Best regards,

- Bill T.

-----Original Message-----
From: oldtools-bounces@r...
[mailto:oldtools-bounces@r...] On Behalf Of Waylan Limberg
Sent: Wednesday, March 26, 2008 4:37 PM
To: porch
Subject: [OldTools] Bio: Waylan Limberg

Speaking of which, we have an old desk in the shape of a quarter
circle with a leather pad inlayed in the top. It's a beautiful old
desk, but the finish (I'm guessing varnish) is chipped in high use
areas and I'm not sure how to approach the leather top. I don't want
to have to replace the leather or the gold leafing border on it. It
appears there is some kind of finish over the leather, but I don't
know what - maybe the same at the wood or maybe just a wax or
something. Any suggestions on how to refinish the desk without ruining
the leather?

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178648 Thomas Conroy <booktoolcutter@y...> 2008‑03‑27 Re: Bio: Waylan Limberg
Galoots:

Waylan Limberg wrote:

>I'm not sure how to approach the>leather top. I don't want to have>to
>replace the leather or the gold>leafing border on it. It appears>there
>is some kind of finish over>the leather, but I don't know>what - maybe
>the same at the wood>or maybe just a wax or something.>Any suggestions
>on how to refinish>the desk without ruining the leather?<

It's pretty dangerous to try to do anything about generic leather. The
dangers outweigh the likely benefits unless you have lots of experience,
and this kind of experience is gained partly by destroying things. Most
leather will, sooner or later, develop "red rot" in which it turns into
red dust. This is incurable and essentially untreatable. Leather can dry
out and crack in consequence of the dryness without having red rot, and
again once this has developed there is not much to do about it. If the
leather is coming detached from the wood without damage it can be glued
down, but the moisture in glue (and especially the hot moisture in hot
glue) can turn old leather black and make it harden and shrivel. If you
mask off the wood with pressure-sensitive tape on the leather, then when
you pull up the tape you may pull the surface off the leather with it.
Any attempt to remove a previous coating will probably pull off the
surface of the leather or stain it or otherwise irretrievably damage it.

None of this is enough cause to replace the leather. Even red rot can be
consolidated temporarily (say for a few decades) with "klucel-G" which
is so close a relative of methyl cellulose (wallpaper paste) that I
would guess that you could substitute the wallpaper paste. Mix up a thin
solution of the wallpaper paste with 90% isopropanol (rubbing alcohol)
or with denatured alcohol and let it sit a day or two. Don't use water,
which may blacken the leather (and this includes the water in 70%
isopropanol). Brush a thin layer on to powdery areas and let it soak in.
You aren't trying to get a surface coating here; you want a consolidant
to penetrate and hold the powder together without coating the surface.
If when dry there is a surface sheen, wipe it over with the alcohol you
used to reduce the sheen. Try on a small inconspicuous area first. Dry
flaking leather may sometimes be improved by the same means. These are,
by the way, **specific** treatments for the *specific** problem of
powdering or crumbling, and even then they don't always work; use them
only if you need them and if not other option (like doing nothing) is
available.

Don't apply any kind of oily leather dressing to damaged leather and
expect any improvement; all you will get is oily and probably stained
leather. **Small** amounts of oily or greasy leather dressing can act as
a prophylactic and prevent future damage to leather that is not yet
damaged, but they cannot cure damage, and they are all very likely to
cause dark, untreatable stains to old leather. The proprietary dressings
try to convince you in their blurbs that they will make the old new by a
miracle. They won't.

If you must glue down lifted leather, the important thing is to avoid
trapping moisture in the leather while the adhesive is setting. So
**don't** put waxed paper on the surface and leave it under pressure as
you might with veneer. Best adhesive to use is wheat flour paste except
that paste is very wet; any PVA like elmer's is next choice. Use a
minimum amount of cold adhesive, pet the leather down, and then leave it
for a few minutes under smooth cardboard and a moderate weight. A layer
of paper towel will keep the glue from sticking to the cardboard. The
cardboard will allow some passage of moisture out of the leather. Check
after 15 minutes or so and change the towel and cardboard. Change two or
three times, then allow to dry overnight. Use smooth cardboard; any
texture in the cardboard (or even the paper towel, if you don't change
it) can imprint texture onto the wet leather. One way of getting minimum
adhesive is to put the adhesive on thin cardboard like a torn-off scrap
of file folder, slip the cardboard under the lifted area, smooth the
leather onto the adhesive, and then pull the cardboard out. This should
leave a very, very thin layer of adhesive on the leather, and that is
just what you want. Most of the problems in sticking down old leather
are caused by too much adhesive.

Don't forget that shellac is an adhesive as well as a finish; it gives a
water-free alternative in gluing down small lifting areas. And you might
check the possibility that this coating you see on the current leather
is shellac, especially if the wood finish is shellac. This would give
you cleaning options to exploit, and others to avoid.

Try and do your actual refinishing of the wood neatly enough that you
don't need to mask off the leather. This is possible, at least if you
are using shellac carefully, though it takes a lot of care. Mostly,
though, remember the mantra "Let old things be old." The less you do the
better. Is the damage to the leather so much that you **must** do
something? Or can you live with it if the finish of the wood is
corrected? I like what I think of as the "Bureuocrat's Maxim:" If you
don't do anything, you won't do anything wrong. Frustrating when you go
in with paperwork, but its good advice in restoration.

Tom ConroyBerkeley

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Recent Bios FAQ