Dear Tom,
 Thank you for your kind and intelligent reply. I have no absolutely no 
argument with people who consider it only a decorative element, have an open 
mind, and do not atempt to assert their own opinions as fact with little or 
no research to back it up. The "nib" may very well have been only a 
decortation from day one. We will never know for sure. However, when I 
entered this "chat", and I don't intend to put any one down, it was because 
of a few wild and crazy ideas were floating around about nibs being broken 
off by there makers, testing for temper by the "nib" method, and other wild 
and crazy speculations, with every one throwing in there two cents worth. 
Clearly the nib may of had a purpose when it was popularized in the 17th 
Century, and it is also very clear that in the 18th,  19th, and the early 
20th centuries it had become a decoration only. I don't think that even 
Henry Disston would have known why the "nib" had been first developed. That 
was well over 300 years before his time, and it had been in use as only a 
decoratative element for 200 years before his birth. That is all that he 
would have known. Only a few of the people could even read or write at that 
time. I just wanted to present a little factual information along with some 
reasoned spectulation concerning a subject that will forever remain unknown 
(as to why the first nib maker actualy did it and what he was thinking), and 
hope that people who come up with some of these wild and crazy ideas will 
wake up and smell the coffee.
Tom
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "T&J Holloway" 
To: "oldtools" 
Sent: Saturday, July 12, 2008 6:33 PM
Subject: Re: [OldTools] Handsaw Nibs and Early Saws

> On Jul 12, 2008, at 1:48 PM, Tom Opfell wrote:
>> My Dear Porch Sitters,
>> I would like to thank all that sent me a warm welcome after my  first 
>> posting. I now realize that by admitting to having an  sickening 
>> obsession with handsaws has put me in the "collector"  camp in the eyes 
>> of many of the user types reading these posts. Let  me assure those 
>> persons that after earning my living for 35 years  as a carpenter, that I 
>> do indeed know which end of a saw to pick up.
>> To those who have little interest in the historical aspects of 
>> woodworking tools and view discussions of saw nibs and early  handsaws as 
>> comical, a waste of time, or just plain ridiculous,  will probably find 
>> little to interest themselves here. . . .
> [Rest of interesting and informative historical treatise snipped,  per 
> FAQ]
>
> Tom--
> Thanks very much for the background, context, and clarification.  I  (and 
> I am sure others) appreciate your taking the time to put it  together.  As 
> one of those who came back at your earlier, much  briefer posting, and 
> probably did so way too bluntly (not really in  keeping with the mellow 
> traditions of The Porch) I want to assure you  that many of us are, 
> indeed, very interested in such historical  matters.  We value reasoned, 
> informed discussion, maybe more than  this latest round of the "saw nib 
> debate" has revealed, and I  apologize for my part in any sharp edges the 
> discussion might seem to  have taken on.
> I agree that those on the side of "it's only decorative" are also 
> speculating, and a pamphlet approved by Henry Disston's sons  around  the 
> beginning of the 20th century is no more authoritative than some  of the 
> other recently printed sources.  It may well be that they also  didn't 
> know or care much about history or tradition, and just wanted  to stop the 
> idle queries that came their way.  From the few  illustrations I have seen 
> of much earlier saws with much larger "nib- like" protrusions, I would 
> also agree that Disston's nibs as of the  later 19th century were only 
> vestigial versions of what apparently,  on some saws, had once been 
> larger.  There is also ample evidence,  however, that the Disstons 
> continued to think that matters of "style"  were important, even before 
> practicality.  That evidence is no doubt  etched on the blades of many of 
> the saws in your collection:  "For  Beauty, Finish, and Utility, this saw 
> cannot be excelled."  Style  first, craftmanship in saw making second, and 
> utility third--and all  important.  As for the dating of the pamphlet, 
> surely there were  people around in 1900, probably some still working for 
> Disston, who  had been at it since before the Civil War.  Oral traditions 
> were  probably more important in the past than more recently, especially 
> in  manual trades and I *speculate* that if Henry himself (1819-78) had 
> ever made his opinions known as to why they put nibs on saws, it  should 
> have still been in the company lore by 1900.
> That said, It seems to me that those who continue to search for, or 
> speculate on the side of, a utilitarian purpose for the saw nib, need  to 
> come up with a more convincing case, whether from historical  evidence or 
> from the standpoint of utilitarian practicality or a  combination of both, 
> than I have seen so for.  The idea that a  working craftsman might find it 
> useful to have a piece of metal  sticking out of the top edge of the saw 
> blade, as a visual signal on  the back stroke that the teeth are coming 
> close to being pulled out  of the kerf--I do not find convincing.
> Thanks again for sharing your experience and knowledge with us,
> Tom Holloway (one of the other Toms)
>
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>
>
> 

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