If the nib was so useful to the workman on those earlier saws and made it
easier or somehow more efficient in use, why did it wither and die?
Wouldn't the workman who had grown up and been trained on large-nibbed saws
demand the same or similar nib when they bought new saws?  Are the nibless
saws more complicated to learn to use, as they lack the eye-catching device?

Mr. Hibbens's speculation seems just that to me - speculation.  Having used
handsaws for a couple years - admittedly not 35 - it just doesn't make sense
or ring true to me.  Is the argument that workmen in the 17th century
watched for the nib to emerge from the cut, rather than watching the line
they were sawing to?

We can all speculate lots of interesting "functions" for the nib, and some
have pet theories they like quite well.

I don't see it as needing any particular function.  What is the function of
the tiny little curvy notch at the top of the handle shown here?
http://www.disstonianinstitute.com/9page/no9h3.jpg

What's the function of wheat-carving on a handle?

What's the function of the "fishtail" or "birdsmouth" notch at the bottom of
smaller backsaw handles (for example:
http://www.finetoolj.com/LN/images/LNDOVETAIL.jpg)

I don't see a need for every little notch and projection on a tool to serve
some functional purpose.  A lot of it is frippery to make it more
aesthetically appealing.  In my workshop, the nib falls into that category,
as there seems to be no contemporaneous documentation or depictions of it
being used in any functional way.

- Bill T.

-----Original Message-----
From: oldtools-bounces@r...
[mailto:oldtools-bounces@r...] On Behalf Of Tom Opfell
Sent: Saturday, July 12, 2008 4:48 PM
To: oldtools@r...
Subject: [OldTools] Handsaw Nibs and Early Saws

My Dear Porch Sitters,
I would like to thank all that sent me a warm welcome after my first
posting. I now realize that by admitting to having an sickening obsession
with handsaws has put me in the "collector" camp in the eyes of many of the
user types reading these posts. Let me assure those persons that after
earning my living for 35 years as a carpenter, that I do indeed know which
end of a saw to pick up.
To those who have little interest in the historical aspects of woodworking
tools and view discussions of saw nibs and early handsaws as comical, a
waste of time, or just plain ridiculous, will probably find little to
interest themselves here.
There certainly is no definitive answer to the question of "what was the
original purpose of the saw nib?". We do not have a historical reference
that revels who the first man to put a "nib" on a saw was, or as to what his

original idea was. Nor do we have a dinfinitive reference as to why some
twenty succeeding generations of saw makers copied this early pioneer's
idea. About these maters we can only speculate. The idea that the nib was
always intended to be purely decorative is just as speculative as the idea
that the nib served a purpose. We can only look at the artifacts and try to
arrive at intelligent conclusions.
Although I would not be surprised if some pictorial reference to a saw
having what looked like a "nib" turned up from 2000 years ago, for the most
part in the we can assume that in middle Europe the "nib" first began to
appear on short wide blade saws, having blades which were nearly rectangular

(very slight taper in width) in cross section and had a straight cutting
edge.
These saws are believed to have been the result of improvements in the
materials (carbonized iron) in which the saw maker had at his despoil. The
blades on these wide, straight, bladed saws are believed to have been
thinner than the narrow bladed curved sword like saws that had been in use
throughout the middle ages. The curve of the blade on the saws of the middle

ages(and earlier) was not merely a decorative feature but served to stiffen
it while minimizing it's thickness. Pictorial examples of these narrow
bladed sword like saws often show the teeth cutting on the push stroke on
larger models while the smaller examples often on the pull.
It should be noted that saws of both pull and push stroke go back to the
stone age and that while most early copper saws would have been toothed to
cut on the pull stroke, many of the later bronze types cut on the push. It
was a matter of achieving the required stiffness while maintaining the
requisite thinness to minimize material remodel, making sawing quicker and
less labor intensive. This is certainly the reason why frame saws were so
popular and many countries early on, and nearly abandoned the handsaw or at
least minimized it's usage.
These early "nibbed" wide bladed saws which began appearing circa the 1600's

were often categorized by a dramatically rounded toe having a large radius
of some 2 or 3 inches. Should we ask ourselves "why the dramatically rounded

toe"? Was it purely decorative? Well, some flat earthers might think so, but

it probably did have an intended purpose of making the saw more user
friendly buy allowing it to get into tighter spaces, sawing up against an
obstacle, freedom from pain when dropping on your toe, etc.
On those early "nibbed" saws, which are generally fairly short in length, we

progress up the blade from the rounded toe to find a very large bulbous
"nib" which would clearly "catch the eye" of a carpenter as the saw was in
use. It should also be noted that these early wide, rectangular shaped, thin

bladed saws, with round toe and large nib, are most often depicted as
cutting on the pull stroke, unlike many of the earlier curved bladed, nib
less, saws which often cut on the push stroke.
For those that have decried the "nib" is not large enough to "catch the eye"

or that saw is moving to fast to see the nib are not thinking about a saw
from the 17th Century, but are referring to there own experience with the
tiny nibbed saws from the 18th and 19th Century.
As handsaws progressed, in Europe, in the 18th century the blades developed
a much greater taper (not so rectangular) being much narrower at the toe.
The nibs progressively got smaller and the rounding of the toe was not as
dramatic. As the development of steel and the art of smithing progressed the

blades became stiffer and thinner and the teeth began to revert back to a
push stroke.
By the beginning of 18th Century the English were turning the production of
handsaws into an art form. The creation of the guilds of the middle ages had

turned tool production into a very specialized affair. I have often heard
the tale that the "nib" was a trade mark of the saw makers guild (or the
cutlers guild, which later incorporated saw making), but have found no
documentary of this folklore either. It is clear that during the 18th and
19th centuries the "nib" became an expression of the art of saw making.
Before the age of machinery and mass production, the "nib" allowed the saw
maker to display his skill in working with metal. Saw handles were often
bought by the maker from an outside source by this time. Certainly to the
buyer, an artfully done decoration on the back of the saw plate, would give
an assurance that the article had been produced by an accomplished maker.
When the sons of Henry Disston made the statement (ca,1900) that the nib was

purely decorative and served no useful purpose, they were most certainly
referring to the saws that they were making at that time. They most likely
published this statement in response to all the enquiries that had been
received, inquiring as to it's purpose. They did not say that the "nib" had
never, throughout history, served a purpose.
When the "nib" was first developed in the middle ages, excessive
ornamentation was not the norm. Saws were rather plane and purposeful
looking, lacking the frills of the later era. It is not that far of a
stretch to envision that there was originally a useful purpose for that bit
of ornamentation. After all, tools were not intended to be art, and nearly
all of the design decisions that have occurred throughout the history of
there making, were intended to improved there usefulness, no mater how wacky

the idea may have been. I see little reason to suspect that this was not the

case in the development of the saw "nib".
The reasoned speculation by Thomas Hibben, in his book concerning the
history of types and the methods of construction of carpenters tools from
the stone age to the 18th century, that the nib was originally developed to
"catch the eye" of the operator seems to me to be the most valid that I have

yet to hear, although clearly as time progressed the "nib" was relegated to
ornamentation.
Regards,
Tom

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