OldTools Archive

Recent Bios FAQ

278513 cvc95@c... 2024‑06‑17 Purchased this saw
I just purchased this saw.
https://i.etsystatic.com/24542044/r/il/d93c3d/5353933660/il_680x540.5353933660_l
vm4.jpg
I was told it was a rip saw, and that is what I am looking to use it for.
Is this a saw blade anyone recognizes? How are these sharpened? Is there
specific points and angles that I should
know about? Is there a good resource on how to sharpen handsaws?
278515 Erik Levin 2024‑06‑17 Re: Purchased this saw
CVC95 wrote:
> I was told it was a rip saw, and that is what I am looking to use it for.
>Is this a saw blade anyone recognizes? How are these sharpened? Is there
>specific points and angles that I should
>know about? Is there a good resource on how to sharpen handsaws?

THere is a fair bit to unpack here. I don't specifically recognize the pattern,
but, unless it is a modern, induction hardened saw, they are sharpened with a
saw file. Generally a triangular file, and for a 5 or 6 point rip, I use an 7"
slim. An 8 or 10" for 3 to 4 point, and a 5 or 6" down to maybe 10 point.

Sharpening is a skill, but isn't really that hard to do ok. Serviceable. It took
me maybe three or four tries to get to serviceable with a panel rip saw. The
next was, if I recall correctly, a small backsaw filed to rip for dovetails, and
that went fine, if set a bit wide. Woodsmans (crosscut/bucking) saws with
rakers, though easier to see, took longer, and the multiple geometries that must
match add to the challenge.

You need a saw vise setup (I often use two 1X4 with beveled edges in a standard
vise, though I own *mumble* saw vises, as well. I swear, I am not a collector)
to grip right below the tooth line, and, when learning, a visual guide is nice
to help control the angle. 

Set before filing (a sawset is used to kick the teeth to alternate sides to
provide clearance for the saw plate. Another rabbit hole of its own....), and
check after if you take much off. For a rip, a light dress over the points
(joint_- a flat file to take all points to the same line, square to the plate)
to even them up if it is real dull, and the stroke is straight across. Chisel
points. If the saw isn't hammered, One or two jointing passes on the tips to
just give a reference, then a few strokes in each gullet, matching the existing
angle, until the shiny spots go away at the points. In service dressing, I
usually don't do a jointing pass, but hit each gullet once from each side then
inspect. Magnification is good.

Rip is, in my opinion, a good place to start the sharpening journey. the
geometry is pretty easy. I have a variety of handles to use, and use one on both
ends of the file for control. The one on the tang is standard, the one on the
point is bored from the side , so I can use it to control the roll angle of the
file.

There are a lot of saw sharpening guides on line, but each comes to his or her
own technique after following several masters. Several masters reside here, and
will, undoubtedly, add to this, likely not agreeing with all I have said. It is
normal. There are as many variations as there are people filing saws.

You might see the Vintage Saws site, or Paul Sellers site, for further detail. 


If the saw is a modern, hardened tooth type, the gist is the same, but I use
diamond coated files or triangular Norton stones ("files"), and there isn't a
lot to do, in my opinion, for broken teeth but accept and ignore. Jointing is
with a flat diamond or stone, and ONLY if you must, due to uneven points
sharpening won't level. Don't try setting a hardened tooth plate. They will snap
off.

*** This message was sent from a convenience email service, and the reply
address(es) may not match the originating address
278519 Stu Farnham <stu.farnham@g...> 2024‑06‑17 Re: Purchased this saw
I am no saw guru, but I have kicked around long enough to know that hsi is
probably one of the now-less-common styles of crosscut profiles that you
see on old felling saws. A google search for *sawblade tooth patterns*
turned this
<https://antiquesknowhow.com/wp-content/uploads/2023/01/Different-Types-of-
Antique-Crosscut-Saw-Tooth-Shapes-1024x852.jpg>
 up.

There’s a new book out on saw sharpening that deserves a look. My take is
that it is better than most of what’s out there. The book is Set & File
<https://lostartpress.com/collections/all-books-1/products/set-file-a-practical-
guide-to-saw-sharpening>
by
Matt Cianci. Matt has a ton of real-world experience, I find his
explanations clear and the fact that he uses close up photos rather than
by-hand illustrations very useful.

Hope this helps,

Stu

____________
Stu Farnham
Gilmanton, NH

From: Erik Levin via groups.io 

Reply: enl_public@y...  
Date: June 17, 2024 at 16:36:08
To: Oldtoolslist  
Subject:  Re: [oldtools] Purchased this saw

CVC95 wrote:
> I was told it was a rip saw, and that is what I am looking to use it for.
>Is this a saw blade anyone recognizes? How are these sharpened? Is there
>specific points and angles that I should
>know about? Is there a good resource on how to sharpen handsaws?

THere is a fair bit to unpack here. I don't specifically recognize the
pattern, but, unless it is a modern, induction hardened saw, they are
sharpened with a saw file. Generally a triangular file, and for a 5 or 6
point rip, I use an 7" slim. An 8 or 10" for 3 to 4 point, and a 5 or 6"
down to maybe 10 point.

Sharpening is a skill, but isn't really that hard to do ok. Serviceable. It
took me maybe three or four tries to get to serviceable with a panel rip
saw. The next was, if I recall correctly, a small backsaw filed to rip for
dovetails, and that went fine, if set a bit wide. Woodsmans
(crosscut/bucking) saws with rakers, though easier to see, took longer, and
the multiple geometries that must match add to the challenge.

You need a saw vise setup (I often use two 1X4 with beveled edges in a
standard vise, though I own *mumble* saw vises, as well. I swear, I am not
a collector) to grip right below the tooth line, and, when learning, a
visual guide is nice to help control the angle.

Set before filing (a sawset is used to kick the teeth to alternate sides to
provide clearance for the saw plate. Another rabbit hole of its own....),
and check after if you take much off. For a rip, a light dress over the
points (joint_- a flat file to take all points to the same line, square to
the plate) to even them up if it is real dull, and the stroke is straight
across. Chisel points. If the saw isn't hammered, One or two jointing
passes on the tips to just give a reference, then a few strokes in each
gullet, matching the existing angle, until the shiny spots go away at the
points. In service dressing, I usually don't do a jointing pass, but hit
each gullet once from each side then inspect. Magnification is good.

Rip is, in my opinion, a good place to start the sharpening journey. the
geometry is pretty easy. I have a variety of handles to use, and use one on
both ends of the file for control. The one on the tang is standard, the one
on the point is bored from the side , so I can use it to control the roll
angle of the file.

There are a lot of saw sharpening guides on line, but each comes to his or
her own technique after following several masters. Several masters reside
here, and will, undoubtedly, add to this, likely not agreeing with all I
have said. It is normal. There are as many variations as there are people
filing saws.

You might see the Vintage Saws site, or Paul Sellers site, for further
detail.


If the saw is a modern, hardened tooth type, the gist is the same, but I
use diamond coated files or triangular Norton stones ("files"), and there
isn't a lot to do, in my opinion, for broken teeth but accept and ignore.
Jointing is with a flat diamond or stone, and ONLY if you must, due to
uneven points sharpening won't level. Don't try setting a hardened tooth
plate. They will snap off.

*** This message was sent from a convenience email service, and the reply
address(es) may not match the originating address
278520 Kirk Eppler 2024‑06‑17 Re: [Sender Verification Fail] Purchased this saw
That looks like a tree saw to me, but I can't access my catalogs to see who
made it, maybe tonight.

As erik said, easy to start sharpening, you get better with time, and
practice.  I've never made one worse after sharpening.  Get earplugs, it
makes it less painful as you learn. Kinda irritating noises til you get
better.

Here's a local guy giving his spiel, I have it on video somewhere too.

http://www.calast.com/personal/ken/Saw%20Sharpening.pdf

KE

On Mon, Jun 17, 2024 at 2:00 PM  wrote:

> I just purchased this saw.
>
> https://i.etsystatic.com/24542044/r/il/d93c3d/5353933660/il_680x540.5353933660
_lvm4.jpg
> I was told it was a rip saw, and that is what I am looking to use it for.
> Is this a saw blade anyone recognizes? How are these sharpened? Is there
> specific points and angles that I should
> know about? Is there a good resource on how to sharpen handsaws?
>
>
>
>


-- 
Kirk Eppler in Half Moon Bay, CA 
278521 Esther <galoot@e...> 2024‑06‑18 Re: Purchased this saw
On 2024-06-17 17:47, Stu Farnham wrote:
snippity..
> 
> There’s a new book out on saw sharpening that deserves a look. My take 
> is
> that it is better than most of what’s out there. The book is Set & File
> <https://lostartpress.com/collections/all-books-1/products/set-file-a-
practical-guide-to-saw-sharpening>
> by
> Matt Cianci. Matt has a ton of real-world experience, I find his
> explanations clear and the fact that he uses close up photos rather 
> than
> by-hand illustrations very useful.
> 
> Hope this helps,
> 

Second that, was about to write a review.  The pictures make the book, 
many times lifesize so you really see what he is talking about.  Also a 
very interesting how-to-start: don't mess with a good saw, start with a 
plain piece of steel, back of dogmeat saw, spare card scraper, or a 
drywall taping knife which he says is perfectly fine spring steel just 
like saw stock (so you can now make a stairsaw blade totally from 
scratch!) cut and file a couple sets of teeth then you will know what 
you are doing.

Also, how to pick a quality old saw; if it has any of the following four 
features: 1. skew back, 2. nib, 3. lambstongue on handle, or 4. brass 
hardware it is high end from the golden age.  None of the features are 
usefull, merely aesthetic, but they only happened on quality saws from 
the era of good sawmakers (he is assuming straight, how to tell good 
from cheap/low end in its time).

So since the term "galoot" came from a sawset discussion, it has come 
back around.


Esther  (just finished first day of Steve Latta inlay class; first we 
make a cutter, then use on MDF before messing with real wood... termite 
barf cheaper and more consistent when starting out)
278527 scottg <scottg@s...> 2024‑06‑18 Re: Purchased this saw
This is a heavy duty pruning saw for green wood and branches. Its not 
really for dry wood at all. I am sure you will find the teeth crosscut 
filed. Good tree surgeon saw and pretty expensive in its day. I'd just 
consider myself lucky I found it, recondition it for its intended use 
and find another rip saw. Rip saws are about the easiest to find on the 
old tools market. Find you a rip, make a new handle that looks beautiful 
and really fits your hand and file the teeth needle sharp. Its a once in 
a lifetime challenge. If you take it on, and do one saw up right, you 
will be able to do as many as you want after that. Old saws, even great 
ones, are not too expensive and you get to have your pick. yours scott


-- 
*******************************
    Scott Grandstaff
    Box 409 Happy Camp, Ca  96039
    scottg@s...
    http://www.snowcrest.net/kitty/sgrandstaff/
    http://www.snowcrest.net/kitty/hpages/index.html
278531 Kirk Eppler 2024‑06‑18 Re: [Sender Verification Fail] Purchased this saw
My bad.  I think I was confusing his saw with a Atkins #40 Tuttle Tooth
pruner, see it here.

https://archive.org/details/AtkinsPruningSaws/page/n3/mode/1up


Looks like his might be made by E.T. Roberts & Lee, but the only one I see
is his, advertised on Etsy and Ebay.  No vintage catalogs available that I
can find.

Scroll down a bit
https://www.ebay.com/itm/204481770865

The suggestion of Matt Cianci as a saw sharpening info is another good
ones, seen some of his work in the past.

Kirk in Half Moon Bay, CA

On Mon, Jun 17, 2024 at 4:01 PM Kirk Eppler  wrote:

> That looks like a tree saw to me, but I can't access my catalogs to see
> who made it, maybe tonight.
>
> As erik said, easy to start sharpening, you get better with time, and
> practice.  I've never made one worse after sharpening.  Get earplugs, it
> makes it less painful as you learn. Kinda irritating noises til you get
> better.
>
> Here's a local guy giving his spiel, I have it on video somewhere too.
>
> http://www.calast.com/personal/ken/Saw%20Sharpening.pdf
>
> KE
>
> On Mon, Jun 17, 2024 at 2:00 PM  wrote:
>
>> I just purchased this saw.
>>
>> https://i.etsystatic.com/24542044/r/il/d93c3d/5353933660/il_680x540.535393366
0_lvm4.jpg
>> I was told it was a rip saw, and that is what I am looking to use it for.
>> Is this a saw blade anyone recognizes? How are these sharpened? Is there
>> specific points and angles that I should
>> know about? Is there a good resource on how to sharpen handsaws?
>>
>>
>>
>>


-- 
Kirk Eppler in Half Moon Bay, CA 
278532 the_tinker <tinker@z...> 2024‑06‑18 Re: [Sender Verification Fail] Purchased this saw
Looking at the ebay pic, I think that's the same saw that OP posted question
about.
We have come full circle. Still think Scott G. nailed it as a pruner despite the
ebay description.
-JP

On 6/18/24 11:22, Kirk Eppler via groups.io wrote:

> 
> My bad.  I think I was confusing his saw with a Atkins #40 Tuttle Tooth
> pruner, see it here.
> 
> https://archive.org/details/AtkinsPruningSaws/page/n3/mode/1up
> 
> 
> Looks
> like his might be made by E.T. Roberts & Lee, but the only one I see
> is
> his, advertised on Etsy and Ebay.  No vintage catalogs available that I
> can find.
> 
> Scroll down a bit
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/204481770865
> 
> The suggestion of Matt Cianci as a
> saw sharpening info is another good
> ones, seen some of his work in the
> past.
> 
> Kirk in Half Moon Bay, CA
> 
> On Mon, Jun 17, 2024 at 4:01 PM Kirk
> Eppler  ( eppler.kirk@g... ) wrote:
> 
> 
>> That looks like a tree saw to me, but I can't access my catalogs to see
>> who made it, maybe tonight.
>> 
>> As erik said, easy to start sharpening, you
>> get better with time, and
>> practice.  I've never made one worse after
>> sharpening.  Get earplugs, it
>> makes it less painful as you learn. Kinda
>> irritating noises til you get
>> better.
>> 
>> Here's a local guy giving his
>> spiel, I have it on video somewhere too.
>> 
>> http://www.calast.com/personal/ken/Saw%20Sharpening.pdf
>> 
>> KE
>> 
>> On Mon, Jun
>> 17, 2024 at 2:00 PM  ( cvc95@c... ) wrote:
>> 
>> 
>>> I just purchased this saw.
>>> 
>>> https://i.etsystatic.com/24542044/r/il/d93c3d/5353933660/il_680x540.53539336
60_lvm4.jpg
>>> 
>>> I was told it was a rip saw, and that is what I am looking to use it for.
>>> Is this a saw blade anyone recognizes? How are these sharpened? Is there
>>> specific points and angles that I should
>>> know about? Is there a good
>>> resource on how to sharpen handsaws?
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>> 
>> 
> 
> 
> 

--
John Pesut
Boardman, Ohio
278533 Richard Wilson <yorkshireman@y...> 2024‑06‑18 Re: Purchased this saw
Coming late to this,   I never heard of the ’Tuttle’ tooth format, bit looking
at it, it seems to me that the leading raker will be channelling all the waste
into that large angled gap much as a plane blade creates shavings - and it would
be patentable as a design.

Oddly enough, I have a galootish saw not unlike this one

https://www.flinn-garlick-saws.co.uk/product/one-man-crosscut-saw-great-
american-tooth/

But about a hundred years older, that I was exhibiting only last week to the
volunteer gang assembling at Shilbottle Woods.  I was invited to ’talk about it’
though I thought I’d just taken it to do some work.  Fortunately it was sharp,
as I also had to ‘demonstrate’.  Darn good saw - needed a bit more set to deal
with green softwood a bit more comfortably but nonetheless, quicker ’n a cha*n
saw to put to use and shorten an 8 inch diameter stem.

I’m pretty sure Finn-Garlick would sell a handle if asked - but crossing the
Atlantic would cost more than an old one.

Richard Wilson
yorkshireman Galoot in Northumbria



> On 17 Jun 2024, at 20:54, cvc95@c... wrote:
> 
> I just purchased this saw.
> https://i.etsystatic.com/24542044/r/il/d93c3d/5353933660/il_680x540.5353933660
_lvm4.jpg
> I was told it was a rip saw, and that is what I am looking to use it for.
> Is this a saw blade anyone recognizes? How are these sharpened? Is there
specific points and angles that I should
> know about? Is there a good resource on how to sharpen handsaws?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 



-- 
Yorkshireman Galoot
in the most northerly county, farther north even than Yorkshire
IT #300
278534 Phil Schempf <philschempf@g...> 2024‑06‑18 Re: Purchased this saw
I was curious about that tooth pattern and doing some digging around I came
across this article that I thought would be of interest -
https://www.smalladventures.net/blog/2015/01/sharpening-great-american-saw.html

The author admits he's never sharpened a saw before, but he reports what he
found out about this tooth pattern.  The article was posted 9 years ago so
some of its links are broken, but it is still an interesting read.

On Tue, Jun 18, 2024 at 8:32 AM Richard Wilson via groups.io  wrote:
278535 PSHONORE <phonore@s...> 2024‑06‑18 Re: Purchased this saw
Reminds of a Disston #32 Pruning saw that's hanging on a wall here.  Has a tooth
pattern that reminds of a two man misery whip.
Disston USA medallion which is probably post WWII.  Here's one on Ebay
https://www.ebay.com/itm/335266250981

Paul Honore in Hebron CT where its going to be close to 100 degrees for the next
few days.
278537 Joshua Clark <jclark@h...> 2024‑06‑18 Re: Purchased this saw
This thread is bothering me because I've seen this saw before, but I can't
recall who made it.

I don't think it's a pruning saw.  First, the handle is all wrong. Pruning
saw handles were sized to be used with a gloved hand.

The teeth are also all wrong. They do look a little like those on the
pruning saw Paul posted, but there are differences. Pruning saws (and most
one- and two-man crosscut saws) are designed to cut on the pull and push
strokes. That's why the rakers have both backward and forward facing faces.
The saw OP posted only cuts on the push stroke. If you look carefully at
the last photo in the eBay listing Kirk linked to, you can clearly see the
tooth pattern, including the fleam angles on the cutting teeth.

It's not one of the usual suspects with non-standard teeth. We can rule out
the Disston D-17, Atkins Universal saws, and the Boynton lightning. OP's
saw is also much too late to be most of those options anyway.

The steeply angled gullets are the defining feature here. Chip clearance is
the factor that slows down handsaws. Big gullets can clear chips faster.
There are a number of patents out there that seek to fix this problem. A
good example is Hazard Knowles's Aug 7, 1850 patent, which has similar
gullets. There are good reasons that none of these designs are still made
today- they are a pain to sharpen, they make the plate and teeth more
fragile and, frankly, the standard tooth designs work very well.

I still want to know who made this saw. It's bothering me.

Josh

On Tue, Jun 18, 2024 at 12:44 PM PSHONORE via groups.io  wrote:
278538 the_tinker <tinker@z...> 2024‑06‑18 Re: Purchased this saw
I can see (I think) "T.R. Roberts" in the etch. Not familiar with that maker
unfortunately.

-- 
John Pesut
Boardman, Ohio
278539 Kirk Eppler 2024‑06‑18 Re: [Sender Not Verified] Re: [Sender Verification Fail] Purchased this saw
IT is the same saw, was listed on ebay and etsy both.

KE

On Tue, Jun 18, 2024 at 8:47 AM John Pesut  wrote:

> **Warning** The sender address (John Pesut ) can not be verified, sender
> email address could be spoofed. Please take care to proceed.
>
> Looking at the ebay pic, I think that's the same saw that OP posted
> question about.
> We have come full circle. Still think Scott G. nailed it as a pruner
> despite the ebay description.
> -JP
>
> On 6/18/24 11:22, Kirk Eppler via groups.io wrote:
>
> My bad.  I think I was confusing his saw with a Atkins #40 Tuttle Tooth
> pruner, see it here.
> https://archive.org/details/AtkinsPruningSaws/page/n3/mode/1up
>
>
> Looks like his might be made by E.T. Roberts & Lee, but the only one I see
> is his, advertised on Etsy and Ebay.  No vintage catalogs available that I
> can find.
>
> Scroll down a bithttps://www.ebay.com/itm/204481770865
>
> The suggestion of Matt Cianci as a saw sharpening info is another good
> ones, seen some of his work in the past.
>
> Kirk in Half Moon Bay, CA
>
> On Mon, Jun 17, 2024 at 4:01 PM Kirk Eppler 
 wrote:
>
>
> That looks like a tree saw to me, but I can't access my catalogs to see
> who made it, maybe tonight.
>
> As erik said, easy to start sharpening, you get better with time, and
> practice.  I've never made one worse after sharpening.  Get earplugs, it
> makes it less painful as you learn. Kinda irritating noises til you get
> better.
>
> Here's a local guy giving his spiel, I have it on video somewhere too.
> http://www.calast.com/personal/ken/Saw%20Sharpening.pdf
>
> KE
>
> On Mon, Jun 17, 2024 at 2:00 PM   wrote:
>
>
> I just purchased this saw.
> https://i.etsystatic.com/24542044/r/il/d93c3d/5353933660/il_680x540.5353933660
_lvm4.jpg
> I was told it was a rip saw, and that is what I am looking to use it for.
> Is this a saw blade anyone recognizes? How are these sharpened? Is there
> specific points and angles that I should
> know about? Is there a good resource on how to sharpen handsaws?
>
>
>
>
>
>
> --
> John Pesut
> Boardman, Ohio
>
>

-- 
Kirk Eppler
*Planned Time Off*
*Nothing Planned*
Technical Development Staff Scientist
Pharm Dev Processing
eppler.kirk@g...
650 225-3911


-- 
Kirk Eppler in Half Moon Bay, CA 
278540 Richard Wilson <yorkshireman@y...> 2024‑06‑18 Re: Purchased this saw
This is getting more interesting. 

I sharpened my saw with inspection and guesswork.  What I decided from
inspection was that the ‘Great American’ 3 point format was a bit weird
Both e ‘Champion’ and ‘Lance tooth’ patterns - as shown at 
https://antiquesknowhow.com/wp-content/uploads/2023/01/Different-Types-of-
Antique-Crosscut-Saw-Tooth-Shapes-1024x852.jpg

Have cutters and rakers.  The cutters are pointy (technical term) and the rakers
have vertical ends to cause the crosscut fibres to roll out and be collected in
the gullets.  The configuration is 2 pointy ones to a raker.  The rakers are
effectively uni directional, so the leading raker is clearing the cut to allow
the next pair of cutters to sever right and left sides of the cut before the
trailing raker slides over, but the next raker is leading and scoops the cut
material into the gullet.

The Great American though, presents 3 working teeth to the cut at a time, and I
scratched my head a good bit before deciding that I would treat each pair of 3
point teeth as a set - so, the two outer teeth are rakers - as above, and each
inner point is sharpened alternately left or right.  A bit over the top if
crosscutting, but given that a raker is kind go trying to be a rip tooth,
effective for ripping.

Overall, you get a saw that works as a cross cut respectably, and also works as
a rip saw.
Maybe that’s why it was named ‘Great’?  


After this, I’ll put that extra bit of set on it to handle green timber, and
give it more exercise.


As ever - the Porch is the best place on the internet for deeply arcane
discussion about the real meaning of life, skills and craftsmanship



Richard Wilson
yorkshireman Galoot in Northumbria



> On 18 Jun 2024, at 17:43, Phil Schempf  wrote:
> 
> I was curious about that tooth pattern and doing some digging around I came
> across this article that I thought would be of interest -
> https://www.smalladventures.net/blog/2015/01/sharpening-great-american-
saw.html
> 
> The author admits he's never sharpened a saw before, but he reports what he
> found out about this tooth pattern.  The article was posted 9 years ago so
> some of its links are broken, but it is still an interesting read.
> 
> On Tue, Jun 18, 2024 at 8:32 AM Richard Wilson via groups.io  yorkshireman.info@g...> wrote:
> 
>> Coming late to this,   I never heard of the ’Tuttle’ tooth format, bit
>> looking at it, it seems to me that the leading raker will be channelling
>> all the waste into that large angled gap much as a plane blade creates
>> shavings - and it would be patentable as a design.
>> 
>> Oddly enough, I have a galootish saw not unlike this one
>> 
>> 
>> https://www.flinn-garlick-saws.co.uk/product/one-man-crosscut-saw-great-
american-tooth/
>> 
>> But about a hundred years older, that I was exhibiting only last week to
>> the volunteer gang assembling at Shilbottle Woods.  I was invited to ’talk
>> about it’ though I thought I’d just taken it to do some work.  Fortunately
>> it was sharp, as I also had to ‘demonstrate’.  Darn good saw - needed a bit
>> more set to deal with green softwood a bit more comfortably but
>> nonetheless, quicker ’n a cha*n saw to put to use and shorten an 8 inch
>> diameter stem.
>> 
>> I’m pretty sure Finn-Garlick would sell a handle if asked - but crossing
>> the Atlantic would cost more than an old one.
>> 
>> Richard Wilson
>> yorkshireman Galoot in Northumbria
>> 
>> 
>> 
>>> On 17 Jun 2024, at 20:54, cvc95@c... wrote:
>>> 
>>> I just purchased this saw.
>>> 
>> https://i.etsystatic.com/24542044/r/il/d93c3d/5353933660/il_680x540.535393366
0_lvm4.jpg
>>> I was told it was a rip saw, and that is what I am looking to use it for.
>>> Is this a saw blade anyone recognizes? How are these sharpened? Is there
>> specific points and angles that I should
>>> know about? Is there a good resource on how to sharpen handsaws?
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> --
>> Yorkshireman Galoot
>> in the most northerly county, farther north even than Yorkshire
>> IT #300
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 



-- 
Yorkshireman Galoot
in the most northerly county, farther north even than Yorkshire
IT #300
278541 Kirk Eppler 2024‑06‑18 Re: [Sender Not Verified] Re: Purchased this saw
Here is confirmation of what you did being correct, per the US Dept of
Forestry.

https://www.fs.usda.gov/t-d/pubs/htmlpubs/htm04232822/page04.htm

Kirk in Half Moon Bay, CA, who also has their axe sharpening manual
somewhere.

On Tue, Jun 18, 2024 at 11:44 AM Richard Wilson <
yorkshireman@y...> wrote:

>
>
> The Great American though, presents 3 working teeth to the cut at a time,
> and I scratched my head a good bit before deciding that I would treat each
> pair of 3 point teeth as a set - so, the two outer teeth are rakers - as
> above, and each inner point is sharpened alternately left or right.  A bit
> over the top if crosscutting, but given that a raker is kind go trying to
> be a rip tooth, effective for ripping.
>
>


-- 
Kirk Eppler in Half Moon Bay, CA 
278542 Richard Wilson <yorkshireman@y...> 2024‑06‑18 Re: [Sender Not Verified] Purchased this saw
How reassuring - thanks 

The ‘Big Thing’ from all this is that the entire ‘assembly’ of a 3 point tooth
is considered much as a single tooth set in another pattern.  I have a gorgeous,
unused almost, perforated lance crosscut, and each group of 4 points includes a
left, a right, and the two bounding rakers.  Makes it much more obviously like a
panel saw cross cut, where alternating left/right teeth can be seen to sever
fibres.

You have to think bigger with a long saw, and think bigger as regards what you
are cutting.  Can’t saw inch thick timber with a lance pattern saw, nor a ten
inch tree stem with a 10 point panel saw.

(Though one of the aforesaid volunteers also turned up with his own saw - about
a 28” panel saw, hard point, with which he abused many branches, deciding he
liked ‘his’ saw better than the provided green wood bow saws provided.  A whole
lot of effort went into what was a dozen strokes for some of us. I was amazed he
could keep it moving in green growing timber.  Still - it’s cheaper than a gym.




Richard Wilson
yorkshireman Galoot in Northumbria



> On 18 Jun 2024, at 20:27, Kirk Eppler  wrote:
> 
> Here is confirmation of what you did being correct, per the US Dept of
Forestry.
> 
> https://www.fs.usda.gov/t-d/pubs/htmlpubs/htm04232822/page04.htm
> 
> Kirk in Half Moon Bay, CA, who also has their axe sharpening manual somewhere.
> 
> On Tue, Jun 18, 2024 at 11:44 AM Richard Wilson mailto:yorkshireman@y...>> wrote:
> 
> 
> The Great American though, presents 3 working teeth to the cut at a time, and
I scratched my head a good bit before deciding that I would treat each pair of 3
point teeth as a set - so, the two outer teeth are rakers - as above, and each
inner point is sharpened alternately left or right.  A bit over the top if
crosscutting, but given that a raker is kind go trying to be a rip tooth,
effective for ripping.
> 



-- 
Yorkshireman Galoot
in the most northerly county, farther north even than Yorkshire
IT #300
278545 Richard Wilson <yorkshireman@y...> 2024‑06‑19 Re: Moulding planes......
Love this sort of question.. 

My guess is that they are about the right length for hands, adequate straight
and flatness of the work, and when craftsman made they settled at around what is
now the common length

Then someone started making them to sell, and of course they cut the blanks all
to the same length.  Then folk made tool chests to house them - and we all know
that the bottom floor is taken up with moulders on end, so now if you start a
factory, you have to make them the right length to fit everyone’s chest..

A bit like ‘Why did Stephenson decide on 4’81/2” as the standard railway gauge?”
Answer: Because horse drawn wagons were the width of a horses backside plus the
cart shafts, which had all made the roads into 3 grooves which decided the width
of many things transport related - especially the chauldron coal wagons horse
drawn past Stephensons front windows, which he knew made up the main reason for
iron rails.  It all makes sense at the time.  No matter that a 6’ gauge would
have made a better solution - we’re all now locked in to the existing mass of
stuff.

Same answer for the No5 plane (Jack, Jeff)  I think it should be wider, so do
others - the 5 ½ was born, but it still needs to fit the toolboxes of yesterday.

That’s my long winded and wistful guesswork anyway.  I’m going for a coffee and
await someone who knows what they’re talking about replying.

Richard Wilson
yorkshireman Galoot in Northumbria



> On 19 Jun 2024, at 04:02, Frank Filippone  wrote:
> 
> It is the early 18th century and everyone making planes makes them the same
length.  Can anyone explain how this could happen? ( ditto 19th century)
> 
> There was no one nor a guild in the USA at least,  to establish a standard,
and yet they are very much the same size......
> 
> How did this happen?  What forces were in play?
> 
> 
> Frank Filippone
> BMWRed735i@G...



-- 
Yorkshireman Galoot
in the most northerly county, farther north even than Yorkshire
IT #300

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