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266812 Bill Ghio 2018‑10‑17 Chisel handle rehab
Bought a chisel. Too grungy for any normal person to touch, but I thot I saw
some potential and it was cheap. Looked like a pervious (ab)user lost the handle
so resorted to a steel hammer and went back to work. Later he found the handle
and forced it into the now mushroomed socket. The sharp edges on the inner side
of the mushroomed top soon dug a groove in the wood till by the time I picked it
up the handle wobbled around like a spinning top about to topple over.

Because of the goodly amount of rust and really hard grunge covering it I
resorted to an unmentionable to remove the "patina”. Found it to be a Buck Bros.
1 1/4 inch chisel w/ about 8 1/2 inches of good steel after grinding it back
1/4” to get past the chipped off corner. It will never win a beauty contest, but
is now a serviceable blade. On to the handle.

The handle was in good shape other than the conical part that inserts into the
socket. Seemed a waste to toss it. Carefully marked its centers and put it into
the lathe. Turned the cone into a 1/2” spigot, drilled a piece of hardwood to
match, a bit of glue and I had something to work with. Back into the lathe to
turn it to fit the freshly cleaned socket and Bob’s your Uncle.

Don’t know why I never thot of this before.


Bill
266813 John Ruth <johnrruth@h...> 2018‑10‑17 Re: Chisel handle rehab
Bill,

I believe you’ve come up with an original solution to an old problem! I’ve been
reading OLDTOOLS for about two decades; the only similar repair I can recall,
and this is VAGUE, drilled the main body of the handle and attached a new piece
of wood which was then turned to a taper.

Your solution seems better. Your spigot goes to the bottom of the socket. The
stress of a hammer blow does not go through the glue joint. (At least, not if my
understanding that the spigot includes the tip of the original taper which still
rests on the bottom of the socket.

Finding mushroomed socket chisels is extremely common IMHE.  Some were sold
without handles; certain tradesmen beat on the sockets from day one.

John Ruth
In windy Metuchen, NJ
266814 Bill Ghio 2018‑10‑17 Re: Chisel handle rehab
> On Oct 17, 2018, at 3:34 PM, John Ruth  wrote:
> 
> Your solution seems better. Your spigot goes to the bottom of the socket. The
stress of a hammer blow does not go through the glue joint. (At least, not if my
understanding that the spigot includes the tip of the original taper which still
rests on the bottom of the socket.

Yep, spigot to the bottom (tip) of the original handle. New piece gets thicker
from there to the shoulder at the handle. Because of the shoulder the new piece
can not move relative to the spigot so, in theory, the glue line will hold. Even
if the glue fails everything should stay together because the mating pieces were
a drive fit.

Bill
266815 Ed Minch <ruby1638@a...> 2018‑10‑17 Re: Chisel handle rehab
Brilliant.  Will you re-work the socket?

Ed Minch
266816 Bill Ghio 2018‑10‑17 Re: Chisel handle rehab
I use one of the plumber’s tapered readers to cut the mushrooming off the inside
of the socket. Works a charm.

Bill

Sent from my iPad
266817 Don Schwartz <dks@t...> 2018‑10‑17 Re: Chisel handle rehab
On 2018-10-17 1:34 PM, John Ruth wrote:
> Bill,
>
> I believe you’ve come up with an original solution to an old problem! I’ve
been reading OLDTOOLS for about two decades; the only similar repair I can
recall, and this is VAGUE, drilled the main body of the handle and attached a
new piece of wood which was then turned to a taper.
>
> Your solution seems better. Your spigot goes to the bottom of the socket. The
stress of a hammer blow does not go through the glue joint. (At least, not if my
understanding that the spigot includes the tip of the original taper which still
rests on the bottom of the socket.

Bill:

Could we get a photo of this? I'm having a hard time visualizing what 
you've done.

Don

-- 
Nullius in verba  ( Take nobody’s word. )
motto of the Royal Society of London for Improving Natural Knowledge

“The information we consume matters just as much as the food we put in our body.
It affects our
thinking, our behavior, how we understand our place in the world. And how we
understand others.” — Evan Williams
266818 Charles Driggs 2018‑10‑17 Re: Chisel handle rehab
Sounds like another case of necessity being the mother of invention, if I
understand what I am reading.  If reshaping the mangled taper by shaping and
gluing a chunk of donor wood on to restore the lost material and tapering it in
the lathe didn’t work, I’d be surprised.  I also see no reason why the glue
joint has to fail with this approach as long as the old and new wood join line
is essentially continuous.  Might still need to adjust the taper a bit with soot
or similar to fit the socket, but using the tapered reamer ought to reduce the
need for it.  If done well, Bill’s method might even be invisible.

So it is curious why we haven’t heard of this approach before … ?  While
patenting the idea probably isn’t going to make anyone rich, this might be
another way to salvage more of the orphan socket chisels in the world.

Charlie
266819 Bill Ghio 2018‑10‑18 Re: Chisel handle rehab
> On Oct 17, 2018, at 7:59 PM, Charles Driggs  wrote:
> 
> Sounds like another case of necessity being the mother of invention, if I
understand what I am reading.  If reshaping the mangled taper by shaping and
gluing a chunk of donor wood on to restore the lost material and tapering it in
the lathe didn’t work, I’d be surprised.  I also see no reason why the glue
joint has to fail with this approach as long as the old and new wood join line
is essentially continuous.  Might still need to adjust the taper a bit with soot
or similar to fit the socket, but using the tapered reamer ought to reduce the
need for it.  If done well, Bill’s method might even be invisible.
> 

Here are a few pics. I guess I should have taken some befores or in process but…

https://www.flickr.com/photos/77280442@N.../43579384050/in/album-721577
00994822331/">https://www.flickr.com/photos/77280442@N.../43579384050/in/album-7
2157700994822331/

For the curious, I think the donor wood is Mulberry. It was just a small piece
laying near the lathe.

Bill
266820 Bill Ghio 2018‑10‑18 Re: Chisel handle rehab
Oops, got only one link. Here is the album:

https://www.flickr.com/photos/77280442@N.../albums/72157700994822331/wi
th/43579384050/">https://www.flickr.com/photos/77280442@N.../albums/721577009948
22331/with/43579384050/
266830 Buck Rogers <buckrogers709@g...> 2018‑10‑18 Re: Chisel handle rehab
On Wed, Oct 17, 2018 at 8:01 PM Charles Driggs via OldTools <
oldtools@s...> wrote:

> Sounds like another case of necessity being the mother of invention, if I
> understand what I am reading.  If reshaping the mangled taper by shaping
> and gluing a chunk of donor wood on to restore the lost material and
> tapering it in the lathe didn’t work, I’d be surprised.  I also see no
> reason why the glue joint has to fail with this approach as long as the old
> and new wood join line is essentially continuous.  Might still need to
> adjust the taper a bit with soot or similar to fit the socket, but using
> the tapered reamer ought to reduce the need for it.  If done well, Bill’s
> method might even be invisible.
>
> So it is curious why we haven’t heard of this approach before … ?  While
> patenting the idea probably isn’t going to make anyone rich, this might be
> another way to salvage more of the orphan socket chisels in the world.
>
> Charlie


Patent dude will make some cash.

I see a lot of mashed sockets, but no mangled tapers on the handles.   This
could be a very uncommon repair.

Regards,
Steve
266827 Bill Ghio 2018‑10‑19 Re: Chisel handle rehab
Sent from my iPad

> On Oct 18, 2018, at 5:57 PM, Buck Rogers  

> I see a lot of mashed sockets, but no mangled tapers on the handles.   This
could be a very uncommon repair.

Think about all the orphan chisel handles that don’t (yet) fit the socket chisel
crying out for a new handle.

Bill
266831 Ed Minch <ruby1638@a...> 2018‑10‑19 Re: Chisel handle rehab
> On Oct 18, 2018, at 5:57 PM, Buck Rogers  wrote:
> 
> I see a lot of mashed sockets, but no mangled tapers on the handles.   This
> could be a very uncommon repair.
> 
> Regards,
> Steve

I agree.  I have a box of orphaned chisel handles down there, and don;t believe
I have ever seen a mangles taper.  But if I do, I now know just how to approach
it

Ed Minch
266833 Kirk Eppler <eppler.kirk@g...> 2018‑10‑19 Re: Chisel handle rehab
On Fri, Oct 19, 2018 at 8:03 AM Ed Minch  wrote:

>
> I agree.  I have a box of orphaned chisel handles down there, and don;t
> believe I have ever seen a mangles taper.  But if I do, I now know just how
> to approach it
>
>
I have at least one in the shop now where the taper wobbles in the socket,
and there is a recess where the flange on the taper ripped up the wood.
Unfortunately, my lathe skills may need brushing up before I attempt this.
-- 
Kirk Eppler in HMB, who picked up some monster wood screws from an Estate
sale on the way to work.
266834 bridger@b... 2018‑10‑19 Re: Chisel handle rehab
My understanding of socket chisel handles is that you want the internal 
tapered piece to go *almost* but not quite to the bottom of the socket. 
Otherwise it will in time work itself loose. My experience bears this 
out.
266835 <gtgrouch@r...> 2018‑10‑19 Re: Chisel handle rehab
You don't need lathe skills.  Being handy with rasp and file are good enough!

YMMV, Gary Katsanis
Albion New York, USA


---- Kirk Eppler  wrote: 

=============
On Fri, Oct 19, 2018 at 8:03 AM Ed Minch  wrote:

>
> I agree.  I have a box of orphaned chisel handles down there, and don;t
> believe I have ever seen a mangles taper.  But if I do, I now know just how
> to approach it
>
>
I have at least one in the shop now where the taper wobbles in the socket,
and there is a recess where the flange on the taper ripped up the wood.
Unfortunately, my lathe skills may need brushing up before I attempt this.
-- 
Kirk Eppler in HMB, who picked up some monster wood screws from an Estate
sale on the way to work.
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266845 Thomas Conroy 2018‑10‑21 Re: Chisel handle rehab
Kirk Eppler wrote: "I have at least one in the shop now where the taper wobbles
in the socket,
and there is a recess where the flange on the taper ripped up the wood.
Unfortunately, my lathe skills may need brushing up before I attempt this."
You'll probably get a better fit by scraping in. without extending the tenon.
Cut a sixteenth or an eighth inch  or more off the end of the tenon, and whittle
back the shoulder of the handle the same distance. Put the handle in the socket,
align it to get good straightness, and wiggle the handle around a bit. The dirt
from the socket will offset onto the tenon and will, at first, show you where
you have to trim back.  Later you will have to use a little scrap of carbon
paper wrapped around the tenon. Set register marks so that you can put the
handle back into the socket in the same orientation each time; you don't want to
rotate the handle in the socket as you transfer carbon, since the socket is
probably oval or bumpy on the inside---especially if it is a welded socket, not
a forged one. 've done this many times; I usually fit by scraping in even if
I've made an entirely new handle.

Tom Conroy
Berkeley

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