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266365 | "yorkshireman@y..." <yorkshireman@y...> | 2018‑08‑19 | A sticky finish |
The story so far… Needed new table for rebuilt bit of house. “I’m not waiting until you make one” (anyone else heard that?) weeks of ‘shopping’ go by - there are a few good, well built tables out there. There are a myriad of horrible and shoddy tables. Passing a rural grot shop enroute to Scotland we uncovered a solidly built 6 foot table, a bit unloved, top made of three boards in 1 1/2 inch old growth close grain pine. A bit of haggling with the booth owner direct (she lives almost beside us, and we’ve dealt before.) The table came home with us. A bit of TLC to clean it down, do some filling of some age cracks that were showing in the top. Not too much cleaning, so some of its history shows up. Crack filling with a slurry of pumice and shellac, clean down, buff up with wax. All is good. I made a matching bench for one side. They look good together. We sit and have breakfast lined up on the bench, looking out at the world. Until… “This table needs cleaning - look at this” - words to strike fear into a galoot. Sure enough, the edge we lean on, rest sweaty forearms on, when wiped with a damp cloth, reveals that a bit too much of that history/patina was left. “Needs more of a clean and some fresh finish” I say. A good cutting over with the 3m ‘green thing’ and the grime is gone, along with some of the finish, one or two places are almost to the ‘scrubbed pine’ holystone effect, but it’s all still under control. Pay attention here. I went over it with some 2lb cut blonde dewaxed shellac, too much of a gloss in places, but that will be fixed. dry overnight, repeat to cover one or two thin patches and come to an even finish we’ll call ‘bodied’ leave overnight. Still has a soft surface. Sticky, even, if you leave a warm hand there. leave overnight surface is harder, but not hard. We all know that shellac dries within minutes at these temperatures. Overnight is more than plenty. This is not the behaviour of shellac - it has to have esterified(sp) or be suffering from ? what - water ingress? - hence my question. The shellac I used has been in that bottle for several years (ex-wine bottle stoppered with a grooved cork) - I’ve been otherwise occupied than shaving production lately, and 2lb cut I rarely use. In this case because it was at hand, whereas freshly made 1 or 4lb is not. The shellac itself dates back to the Paddylac era - same supplier, roughly same dates. The alcohol in that bottle has been there, with plenty of air above it, for a long long time. Now - I know I did wrong here. Should have made up fresh and delayed the job, but I didn’t. My plan is to out with the alcohol and remove much of what’s there. Also to out with the scales and make up new. My question is to the chemist we have. What’s the cause? IS it water ingress to the mixture? Is it the degradation of the mixture due to esterification? Enquiring minds need to know. Web searches haven’t come up with answers. I felt sure that The Porch would enjoy a bit of fun pointing fingers at the soft top galoot in Northumberland, and then, when the laughter dies down, explain the intricacies. Richard Wilson Northumberland Galoot recently returned from the Edinburgh Fringe, where I was the only person at the Gin distillery tour (and tasting) who holds an alcohol licence from Her Majesty, God bless her. |
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266367 | scott grandstaff <scottg@s...> | 2018‑08‑19 | Re: A sticky finish |
sounds pretty much exactly like the story of the old guitar I was working on last fall Try fresh alcohol. Reserve the old stuff you still have left for scrubbing down/off the sticky finish (and washing brushes later) Get some "hot stuff" for mixing up your new shellac Bet you all will be well yours scott -- ******************************* Scott Grandstaff Box 409 Happy Camp, Ca 96039 scottg@s... http://www.snowcrest.net/kitty/sgrandstaff/ http://www.snowcrest.net/kitty/hpages/index.html |
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266378 | Bruce Zenge <brucensherry@g...> | 2018‑08‑22 | Re: A sticky finish |
A bit late, I know, but agree with Scott. One suggestion I will pass on from previous discussions on the porch. When you are going to use older shellac. first lay a bit on glass. If it dries as it normally would, you're good to go. Probably what has happened is the alcohol in your mixed shellac has absorbed water from the air and messed up the drying ability. A few years ago, I bought and used alcohol that was 98% anhydrous (moisture free). A couple of folks thought I was a bit anal in using it, I still use shellac I mixed back then with perfect results. I also mix and store my shellac in pint or quart canning jars. I think doing that also helps retard water contamination. FWIW. Bruce Z. Des Moines, IA On Sun, Aug 19, 2018 at 9:32 AM, scott grandstaff |
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266379 | Ed Minch <ruby1638@a...> | 2018‑08‑22 | Re: A sticky finish |
I use Everclear and mix up a ketchup-squeeze-bottle’s worth at a time. It sits on my bench (basement shop - pretty constant 72-76°) for sometimes over a year and still works great. I keep the little snap lid on the bottle. Ed Minch |
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266380 | "Adam R. Maxwell via OldTools" <oldtools@s...> | 2018‑08‑22 | Re: A sticky finish |
On Aug 22, 2018, at 07:01 AM, Ed Minch |
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266381 | "yorkshireman@y..." <yorkshireman@y...> | 2018‑08‑22 | Re: A sticky finish |
Thanks all, and to Ed and Adam. I was using shellac pretty steadily on restoration work as well as new stuff, and went with the traditional wine bottle with a grooved cork. A bit like your modern sauce bottles, but 200 years ago - you grab it, upend it, and just enough comes out onto the fad to keep polishing - or you shake it over a saucer if you’re working the pad face first. I too had stuff mixed and usable after a two year spell, but I used the 2lb cut for this - because it was still there - instead of mixing fresh. I bought a new 50 litres of alcohol two months back ready to get back into ‘production’ but hadn’t mixed up fresh. I’d forgotten the glass - I’ll go try some on the last of that bottle. I knew better then, and I know even better now. Just spent time with neat alcohol and cloths removing the surface. See what tomorrow brings. Keep on shining… Richard Wilson Yorkshireman galoot in Northumberland |
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266382 | Ed Minch <ruby1638@a...> | 2018‑08‑22 | Re: A sticky finish |
Great idea Ed Minch |
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266383 | Don Schwartz <dks@t...> | 2018‑08‑22 | Re: A sticky finish |
On 2018-08-22 11:05 AM, Ed Minch wrote: > Great idea > > Ed Minch > > > > >> On Aug 22, 2018, at 11:27 AM, Adam R. Maxwell |
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