OldTools Archive
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264737 | Andrew Heybey <ath@h...> | 2018‑01‑14 | Saws, Disston and otherwise |
I saw a couple of Disston crosscut saws at a local antique mall. My best guess after consulting the Disstonian Institute web site is that one is a post-1940 D8 (medallion says “Disston USA”, 4 nuts, skew-back) and one is a post-1940 D7 (3 nuts, straight back). My big question for the list is how much a bow in the blade matters? Both saws have a distinct bow when you sight down the blade, one about 1/8” and one more like 1/4”. Not a sharp bend or kink, but a definite bow. The plates are darkened, but do not look heavily rusted or pitted. Any other tips on what to look for when considering buying an old saw? The “otherwise” are two back saws that I own that I’m not really sure where they came from. Either my grandfather or my father. One has no medallion (or it is missing, there is a hole with a missing nut, was the medallion ever used as a saw nut?), the blade is etched with “CHAMPION”, “warranted high grade spring steel”, “A tool of real merit”. A quick googling does not reveal anything. The other back saw has a medallion that says “Pennsylvania Saw Corp, York PA”. Googling reveals that it was in business 1938-1979. I think that both of the backsaws are 1970 or later. Is it worth attempting to sharpen them or should I keep an eye out for older saws? What makes an older saw better? Is it that the steel is better quality so the teeth take and hold a better edge? Something else? thanks, andrew |
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264738 | Ed Minch <ruby1638@a...> | 2018‑01‑14 | Re: Saws, Disston and otherwise |
There are ways to straighten them and they have been written up on this forum. I am even lucky enough to have come across a saw tensioning hammer (or a file cutter’s hammer - much the same) but I still had no luck in the moderate amount of time I spent trying to do it. There are so many good, straight saws out there I don't think you should bother with bent or kinked saws. Look for saws that are not pitted near the teeth - easy enough to clean surface rust. Consider that shorter saws - 22” and 24” - are really handy in the shop if you aren’t ripping or crosscutting big pieces. Sharpening is no where near as hard as it looks at first. You can get an acceptable sharpening in 30-40 minutes your first try. And it is not necessary that all the teeth be identical, just close. If a saw wanders, a quick stoning down the length of the teeth on the more aggressive side will fix it. Most saws were made by the big 3 despite their etches, so almost anything of a vintage look will be good. Get one with the number of ppi you would like as it is a PIA to change it, but easy to follow what is there. A comfortable handle is very important. Gluing on a new horn and shaping with rasps and files in not too demanding and a good thing to practice skills on. This works unless you live someplace where there are no used tools - here in the mid-Atlantic we have to be careful not to trip over them Ed Minch |
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264739 | Claudio DeLorenzi <claudio@d...> | 2018‑01‑14 | Re: Saws, Disston and otherwise |
Andrew said “that both of the backsaws are 1970 or later. Is it worth attempting to sharpen them or should I keep an eye out for older saws? What makes an older saw better? Is it that the steel is better quality so the teeth take and hold a better edge? “ Do you own a pair of calipers, or maybe a 0-1” micrometer? Measure the thickness of the steel at the heel and the toe just above the teeth along the cutting edge, and also along the backside, furthest away from the teeth. The best quality saws were taper ground, so that the saw plate was thickest at the heel along the tooth line, and gently tapering to thinner steel at the tip and the back. Modern makers use 1095 spring steel (basically the same blue steel bands used to band lumber together at box stores). Older makers used to also “tension” the steel along the tooth line by hammering the metal to cause internal stresses to cause it to want to stay straight. Backsaws are different- the saw plate is of uniform thickness, and the spine pinches the plate and tensions the cutting side (so you can gently tap the back on the bench if the plate is a bit wavy along the tooth line to retension it- of course it’s obvious this doesn’t work on newfangled saws with milled slots with plates that are epoxied in place- this only applies to rolled steel or rolled brass back saws that only pinch the plate). Smaller 6”dovetail backsaws had thinner plates maybe 15 thou, and large tenon saws up to 40 or 50 thou or so. To answer to your question, you have to remember that manufacturers made cheap crap in the old days also, and just because it’s old doesn’t mean it’s good, and vice versa- just because it’s recent vintage doesn’t mean it’s crap either. There were good tools made all over the place, just as there were cheap tools made for occasional use- stuff made to a price point. I would recommend that you definitely sharpen up the ones you already have, and use them. First, as an exercise (it takes practice to learn how to do anything- you can only practice by doing, not reading about it or watching videos- you actually have to do it). It will teach you how hard the steel is, and you can learn about tooth geometry and set and so on, and the performance will help you learn to appreciate what “good” means when you get a really good saw in your hands. As for bent blades, fixing these takes a lot of experience, and although I’ve tried to fix some, I’ve only had the occasional success- usually I leave the bent saws for someone else. A slight bend you may relax by gently curving the blade over (and old book mentions that you should be able to bring the toe to the handle!) but only you can judge if it’s useable or not. In the olden days, there was always a ‘sawsmith’ in building camps and lumber camps. It was a skill set that took years of practice and learning, don’t kid yourself into thinking you can figure it all out on your own by watching a few videos and reading old books in a couple of afternoons. Manual skills require manual exercises, so definitely start practicing, but don’t necessarily expect success right off the bat. (Otherwise we could have all sorts of basement dentistry and home surgery clinics all over the place, right?) Cheers from Waterloo Claudio |
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264741 | Don Schwartz <dks@t...> | 2018‑01‑14 | Re: Saws, Disston and otherwise |
On 2018-01-14 10:41 AM, Ed Minch wrote: > There are so many good, straight saws out there I don't think you should bother with bent or kinked saws. Kinked saws are the devil to fix. Bent saws can be difficult too - but sometimes not. But saws that are very slightly bowed, depending upon scarcity in your area and the ask price, m_i_g_h_t be worth a try. Not in any anteek maul I frequent. So it depends. How much are you willing to lose? You can always turn a bad saw into a pile of decent scrapers. You do need scrapers? FWIW Don -- "You can tell a man that boozes by the company he chooses" The Famous Pig Song, Clarke Van Ness The harder they come, the bigger they fall." Ry Cooder |
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