The really strongly tapered ones can be used to clean up the inside of a
freshly cut metal pipe of varying sizes.

On Jan 7, 2013, at 8:20 AM, paul womack wrote:

> Who needed strongly tapering holes of varying sizes?

Ed Minch

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On Jan 7, 2013, at 8:32 AM, Ed Minch  wrote:

> > The really strongly tapered ones can be used to clean up the inside of a fre
shly cut metal pipe of varying sizes.
> 
> On Jan 7, 2013, at 8:20 AM, paul womack wrote:
> 
>> Who needed strongly tapering holes of varying sizes?
> 
> Ed Minch
> 
> 
Just did this last week to clean a mushed & maimed chisel socket. And, Ed, don't
 forget the 3 & 5 degree tapers on your guitar pegs. Those tapers were used on t
he handles of bowsaws too.

Bill
------------------------------------------------------------------------

Ed Minch wrote"
> The really strongly tapered ones can be used to clean up the inside of
> a freshly cut metal pipe of varying sizes.
>> On Jan 7=2C 2013=2C at 8:20 AM=2C
Yup=2C this is how my old man (a plumber) used when I was a kid (65
years ago) to clean the inside burr from hard copper and iron pipe cut
with a hack saw. Two other uses come quickly to mind -- coopers tapering
bung holes=2C and leather workers sharpening round leather punches. I'm
sure there are many more uses (judging from how common old tapered
reamers are). Sandy.

 paul womack wrote:
> Who needed strongly tapering holes of varying sizes?

____________________________
Home page at: http://www.sydnassloot.com Tool list at:
http://www.sydnassloot.com/tools.htm Brace page at:
http://www.sydnassloot.com/brace.htm -------------------------------------------
----------------------------
-

Back in the days of braces, catalogues listed
3 types of reamer;

The square-solid type, the hollow "half round" type,
and and solid semi-cylindrical type.

(The different types are for differing materials, but I don't recall
which is which).

But, apart from when enlarging holes in sheet materials,
these all make holes with substantial taper.

So - what were they used for? They're common,
both in catalogues, and "the wild" so people clearly
found uses for them.

Who needed strongly tapering holes of varying sizes?

  BugBear
------------------------------------------------------------------------

>
> So - what were they used for? They're common,
> both in catalogues, and "the wild" so people clearly
> found uses for them.
>
> Who needed strongly tapering holes of varying sizes?

Depending on the ptich, maybe countersinks for the flatter ones, chair
legs for the pointier ones?

--Travis (Brisbane, AU)
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On Jan 8, 2013, at 01:14 , paul womack  wrote:

> http://galootcentral.com/components/cpgalbums/userpics/10152/rimer.jpg
> 
> These two pages are from 1845 (lower) and 1928 (upper).
> 
> There appears to be a distinction in use between the "tapered bit"
> for wood, which comes in multiple sizes, and the "square" and "half round"
> rimers for metal, which only come in one size.

FWIW, I have multiple sizes of the half round variety, but they
look user-made.  I kind of assumed they were for enlarging a hole
to size in relatively thin stock, assuming one only had a bit for
a pilot hole.

This is the first photo I've seen of the tapered bit for wood, so
thanks for sharing it!  I have one that's basically a tapered spoon
bit; is that the form in the catalog?  Or would it likely be one of
the "specific tapered reamers" to which you alluded in your PS?  How
does one tell the difference?

Adam

------------------------------------------------------------------------

paul womack wrote:
> Back in the days of braces, catalogues listed
> 3 types of reamer;
>
> The square-solid type, the hollow "half round" type,
> and and solid semi-cylindrical type.
>
> (The different types are for differing materials, but I don't recall
> which is which).
>
> But, apart from when enlarging holes in sheet materials,
> these all make holes with substantial taper.
>
> So - what were they used for? They're common,
> both in catalogues, and "the wild" so people clearly
> found uses for them.
>
> Who needed strongly tapering holes of varying sizes?

The suggestions so far appear to reflect current
usage of reamers;

Modern engineers use near-parallel reamers to make
very accurately sized holes - AFAIK they are only slightly tapered
at the "nose", and thus need to come in a very wide range of sizes.

Example:

http://www.asenggent.com/uploads/6/3/3/3/6333350/2157778.jpg

The very strongly tapered reamer for deburring cut pipe
are like this:

http://www.joesusedtools.com/images/Brace-Reamer-A_LRG.jpg

For cutting holes of varying size in sheet good, the modern engineer
has "cone cutters" AKA "cone bits"

http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/31SRp%2BUyyTL._SL500_AA300_.jpg

I mention all these explicitly, since none of them are anything
like the "old" reamers.

http://galootcentral.com/components/cpgalbums/userpics/10152/rimer.jpg

These two pages are from 1845 (lower) and 1928 (upper).

There appears to be a distinction in use between the "tapered bit"
for wood, which comes in multiple sizes, and the "square" and "half round"
rimers for metal, which only come in one size.

The taper of these old tools is much greater than a modern
"sizing" reamer, but much less than a modern "multisize" reamer
(deburring or cone cuttter).

The only comparable modern tool I can find is a "taper reamer"

http://www.dansdata.com/images/tools/reamer500.jpg

which seems to be a "get you by" kind of tool.

So - the presence of the old shapes seems to me to imply
an old technique, now forgotten.

    BugBear

(I will point out, to save others the trouble, that there are other
VERY specific tapered reamers, including chair legs,  ladder rungs,
cask bung holes and violin pegs holes, but all of these are listed explictly, an
d are
(thus)not mysterious)
------------------------------------------------------------------------

BugBear wrote:

"... http://galootcentral.com/components/cpgalbums/userpics/10152/rimer.jpg

These two pages are from 1845 (lower) and 1928 (upper)..."

Wow.  Thanks for posting that page from the old catalog.
Don't you just love that handwriting.
Very distinctive but not too fancy.
Any there any calligraphers in the collective that can point me to a style
sheet (or at least what it is called).
Need to improve my fountain pen (old tool content) skills.

Cheers!

------------------------------------------------------------------------

On 1/8/2013 4:14 AM, paul womack wrote:
> Modern engineers use ~ ~ ~

Small but salient correction:
The engineers don't use the tools. The tradesman  selects which tools to 
use to accomplish  any given operation and it is the tradesman who uses 
the tools.  The engineer generates and applies the specifications to the 
drawing.

------------------------------------------------------------------------

At 10:46 AM 1/8/2013, Adam R. Maxwell wrote:

>On Jan 8, 2013, at 01:14 , paul womack  wrote:
>
> > http://galootcentral.com/components/cpgalbums/userpics/10152/rimer.jpg
> >
> > These two pages are from 1845 (lower) and 1928 (upper).
> >
> > There appears to be a distinction in use between the "tapered bit"
> > for wood, which comes in multiple sizes, and the "square" and "half round"
> > rimers for metal, which only come in one size.

Just a random data point here but the small hollow blade tapered 
reamers are also called a scillop, at least in the chair makers 
trades.  They were somewhat common 19th Century bit although they 
have been getting harder to find in usable shape these days.  I have 
been finding 3 or 4 a year if I am lucky

Tony (another "boring" subject....,."

                         Olde River Hard Goods
                     http://www.oldetoolshop.com
                                   TSMusic on Facebook
                http://www.facebook.com/tonyseomusic

------------------------------------------------------------------------

Adrian asks about printers' fonts.

Palmer Method was common at the time;
Try Palmer Engravers', Palmer Werk (modern adaptation), Pascal 

Also, try to find the "Boston Type Foundry" Catalog on-line. Ca. 1880 I
believe.

DAMHIKT

Best wishes to all for the New Year!

e. who is not in Ottawa.

------------------------------------------------------------------------

> paul womack wrote:

> (I will point out, to save others the trouble, that there are other
> VERY specific tapered reamers, including chair legs, ladder rungs,
> cask bung holes and violin pegs holes, but all of these are listed
> explictly, and are (thus) not mysterious)

I have wondered about these myself, as I have one or two. I just looked
through a number of catalogs (Swan, Buck Bros., Sargent, White) and they
all sell them, but none of them give any advice on their use, which was
probably so obvious it required no explanation!

The only thing I have used them for is as a violin peg reamer for a few
banjos I made. I have since bought a proper violin peg reamer and it
does a much better job:

http://galootcentral.com/index.php?option=com_copperminevis&Itemid=2&pl-
ace=displayimage&album=272&pos I did find this Strelinger catalog from
1897 (http://tinyurl.com/b24e27b) that says this about the newer design
of fluted tapered reamer (which is like the modern violin peg reamer
that I own):

"These Reamers are rapidly supplanting the older styles of square, half-
round and octagon reamers. They ream out and make true, smooth holes in
wood or any kind of metal."

So I did a little more googling to see if I could find any 19th c.
descriptions of their use and I found this one from 1881:

The reamer, or rymer as it is sometimes called, though the former is the
proper mode of spelling the word, is a steel tool set in a handle and
used for the purpose of enlarging a hole in a piece of metal; as, for
example, in a hinge whose screw-holes are not quite large enough to
admit the screws. It is made in different forms, but most commonly in
the shape of a long, stiletto-like, four-sided blade, thick at the haft,
and tapering to a fine point, which is useful for marking lines on wood,
leather, zinc, or any other material. A good reamer may be bought at
from 6d. to 1s. The tool just described is often called a scriber
because its point is useful for scribing (Latin scribo, I write) or
marking lines on wood, etc. A small rat-tail file may be used by the
amateur as a reamer. (Every man his own mechanic, 1881, by Francis
Chilton Young, p. 127)

I also saw passing references that seemed to imply that they can be used
to enlarge a hole in wood to make it easier to start or turn a screw.

But it seems to me that the intended use was "enlarging holes in sheet
materials" as Paul suggested in his original post. They don't do a good
job of making longer tapered holes in wood. I am very aware of this
every time I try to tune my banjo.

Brian
------------------------------------------------------------------------

I believe this is one of those differences between American and British
English; one of the British meanings of "engineer" is pretty close to
what Americans call a "machinist." Just as Americans use "engineer" for
the guy who runs a locomotive. Different dialects.

Even in America engineering used to be a lot more hands-on. I had an
intro to computer programming class back in the late seventies where the
teacher complained that the engineering department at U.C. Berkeley had
lost its connection to reality. When he went through, and it can't have
been that many years before because he wasn't even middle-aged, they had
a class in "Dynamite." That's all it was, a whole term on dynamite, and
they went out and blew things up. Real things with real dynamite. Can't
get much more hands-on than that, at least not with explosives.

Tom Conroy Berkeley


Cliff Rohrabacher=A0 wrote:

On 1/8/2013 4:14 AM, paul womack wrote:
> Modern engineers use ~ ~ ~

Small but salient correction: The engineers don't use the tools. The
tradesman=A0 selects which tools to use to accomplish=A0 any given
operation and it is the tradesman who uses the tools.=A0 The engineer
generates and applies the specifications to the drawing.
------------------------------------------------------------------------

On 1/8/2013 4:14:00 AM paul womack  wrote:

> I mention all these explicitly, since none of them are anything
> like the "old" reamers.
> 
> http://galootcentral.com/components/cpgalbums/userpics/10152/rimer.jpg
> 
> These two pages are from 1845 (lower) and 1928 (upper).
> 
> There appears to be a distinction in use between the "tapered bit"
> for wood, which comes in multiple sizes, and the "square" and "half round"
> rimers for metal, which only come in one size.

In the catalog (Timmins?) scan, and in Smith's _Key to Sheffield
Manufactories_, the bits are listed as brush bits.  Salaman says that
brush bits were used by brush makers to bore the holes for inserting
bristles.  

While it's not an earth shattering revelation, it is one documented
example of their usage.

Jerry

------------------------------------------------------------------------

Brian Welch wrote:

>
> But it seems to me that the intended use was "enlarging holes in sheet
> materials" as Paul suggested in his original post.

I think I've found the answer, or a good approximation.

The answer is context -

In the modern era, cheap
and widely available twist bits make holes that are parallel
and accurate to size, at least for most purposes.

Only "high precision" work needs a (modern) reamer.

But the old blackmiths drill, with a diamond
shaped tip did NOT cut accurately to size,
did NOT cut parallel, and changed size with
every sharpening!

Hence a need to ream almost every hole.

  BugBear

------------------------------------------------------------------------